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@JRJathome Bottle slot is blank now https://puu.sh/Ay4DG/ed3c36ca53.png

Embedded image

Yep, I'm aware. I made a change to it, but put the sprites in my override folder instead of the pack folder, and forgot to move them over before sending the pack to Emo.

oh okay

In case it takes a while for Emo to publish the fix, here's the fixed pack.

ootrando_itemsonly_jrjathome.zip

272.14 KB

how do I get the new images into emotracker?

For the pack I posted above, just save it in Documents/Emotracker/packs. Don't unzip it.

ah okay, thank you

@JRJathome could I get some help?

What's up?

wierd thing going on

20:48

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/452676095313969154/452678411945508895/unknown.png

Embedded image

20:48

this is what my tracker looks like

20:48

Image attachment

20:48

this is what I'm seeing it look like on a twitch stream

20:49

why is mine different with the dungeon order and lack of initial medallion?

Ah. I made that change when someone asked me to include Ice Cavern. Since I figured people would just mark the one they got for free anyway, I got rid of the freebie label.

ok so its just a more up to date version then

The files and code are still in there if you want to override the layout. The item codes are free_label and free_prize.

so the number by the dungeons is the total amount of chests in the dungeon, right?

nah, I like the change i was just confused

Not total. Keys, map and compass are not included in those counts.

20:52

So Ice Cavern has 3 chests, but only 1 item.

number of "random" chests

Oh, so it's only the unique item chests?

yep

that explains why the count is only one for the ice cave and jabu

And water temple

oh rite

so was shadow changed from 10 > 9 because of an initial miscount?

Yeah. I took my counts from a document on the OoTR discord, but saw multiple people checking their map wondering where the last one was. AA confirmed it was an incorrect count, so I changed it.

well it is the shadow temple, so it must be hidden rooVV

rooVV

im actually glad you got rid of freebie tbh

Yeah, it just seemed redundant.

lol

20:56

having ice caves is more important

agreed

Another new thing I added is you can now right-click the song icons to add a checkmark. I had someone request that so they knew which song locations they had already gotten a song from.

which was a good add

ohhh that's what the check marks mean

20:59

that's clever

oh btw why doesn't the ammo count show up as green when you have the max amount unlike the skulltulas

21:00

just an OCD thing lol

Already fixed. Grab the zip file I posted above.

21:01

The main reason was the number images I had before were only in white. I redid all those images with a different ripped font that also had green text available.

21:02

The counter for the skulltulas is built into Emotracker, so I only needed 1 image.

FYI, I just published that latest version

Oh ok.

Probably the last update I publish for a bit, while I figure out how to let you folks self-publish

Yeah, I already decided I'm not going to touch it for a while. I'm sure I'm already on your list.

there's no list, lol

21:03

I just don't want to be a bottleneck

so checkmark for the location of the song and the icon for the song itself is how I'll use that feature (could work either way but this makes sense to me)

Yeah. Use whatever makes sense to you.

are the stones/medallions gonna end up going the same route? like checkmark to know you beat a dungeon that was supposed to have that medallion and the icon itself for actually having it (edited)

Probably not. That's why I have the medallion icons with the dungeon info at the bottom of the tracker.

orite

i think its nicer at the bottom anyway

21:07

only thing I can think of is for the medallions, why not have a pop up bobble to select a medallion instead of having to click through the options?

I believe that's a limitation with EmoTracker.

@EmoSaru , I have noticed in both your open map and keysanity map, both the blacksmith and Gary go green even if you do not have the mirror.

The logic doesn't require mirror to do blacksmith. Just save and quit, and you'll restart in the light world with the blacksmith.

Same with the chest, then?

yep

Alright, thanks. All this time I was going around it not knowing.

It's one of the few instances where a save and quit might be required.

is there a pack for entrance randomizer?

Not currently. There are some features I want to build out properly for supporting entrance randomizers, because I don't love any of the existing trackers for them and I think we can do better, but as a result there are currently no entrance rando packs.

makes sense, i was just starting to dig into the most recent update to see if the features needed for one might have been added already

nope, not really

16:38

most of the latest update was targeted at supporting some of the more flexible layouts that multi-map games (like the lttp+sm combo rando) need in order to be usable

16:38

entrance support will require a bunch of upgrades to the core logic/location specification format (edited)

16:39

because to do it really properly, you basically need to logically map out the dungeons/caves/etc. (edited)

If you're confident, I'm convinced it's possible to build yourself a tracker pack for Entrance, but it would be a) janky and b) You're not going to be able to do logic for it.

yeah, I mean, there's SOMETHING that's buildable today

yeah, i've also only played a few entrance seeds so i'm not even sure what "properly" means for me yet, i just know that the orphis tracker left something to be desired

I just don't think that something is worth the effort

16:40

and yeah

I toyed around with making one for the 2v2 tournament but I couldn't come up with any system that I liked that was properly workable.

The hardest part of coming up with something for entrance randomizer is a solution for the modes where entrances and exits are decoupled.

16:50

One thing I was thinking of was an expansion of capturable item functionality for entrance randomizer(s) in specific. Like being able to pin a spot on the map, setting the capturable item, and having that item show up on that spot on the map. Add enough items so that you could mark the important locations in the game, and you've got something for simpler entrance randomizer modes. (edited)

16:52

(I'll add that most of this came from thinking of an implementation for Zelda 1 Randomizer's overworld)

Something like that would also allow me to bring the LADX pack up to par with the web based tracker they currently use.

16:58

Well, similar anyway. You can see what they have here. https://www.windfish.io/beta/tracker

Windfish.io :: Windfish.io - A game tracker for The Legend of Zeld...

Windfish is a web-based game tracker designed for streaming The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX that tracks the overworld, items and much more!

there's a "simple" version of it that I could do

17:07

but things get much more difficult when you start considering location logic

17:07

which I want to do in order to be worth it

17:07

esp. with keysanity

17:08

because LTTP dungeons, just for example, get REALLY complicated, and reverse navigation isn't always possible

17:08

Z1 would be a lot easier

17:08

Z2 and LADX are kinda middle of the road

And yeah that's true.

17:11

It gets especially weird with a scenario where you find say the entrance to desert, and one of the exits put you on top of dark death mountain without the mitts. You probably don't want all the locations always showing since that goes against the rest of the location logic. (edited)

17:12

And there's the cross-world mode where you might end up having to traverse through the dark world without the moon pearl to get to another location in the light world.

Yeah

17:13

So, I have a plan that would address it in a way I think is worth doing

17:13

But it's a pile of work

17:13

Because if I do it

17:13

I want it to ALSO work for Z1, Z2, LADX, etc. etc. etc.

And yeah that makes perfect sense.

without also being a usability nightmare (which is the hardest part)

17:14

trying to minimize clicks and gestures on an entrance tracker is really really hard

Yeah, there's a reason I'm thinking of adapting the capturable item interface since it's probably closest.

yeah

17:15

the best way I can put it is "capturable locations"

17:15

or at least "capturable doors"

I can tell you that I'd make a significantly more fully featured Z1R pack if something like it were to come about.

oh, I have no doubt

17:15

and I'd love to see it

As opposed to my currently existing one which just grabs key items, but that's kinda useless.

17:16

The meat of Z1R definitely lies in the entrance shuffling.

Yeah

17:16

Same with LADX, and mostly same with Z2R

17:16

I WANT to build this

17:16

but it's gonna take a while, and that's on top of me actually finding the time to do it, lol

Haha, yeah, I can see that.

17:16

Just looking forward to it.

assuming I get my 6 weeks when I'm planning on it, it's on my list to mess with for sure

@Hamsda Im not entirely sure, but I think your map for OoT is missing an item. There are 2 bomable rocks and a hole below them in Lost woods, one with the deku salesman, and one with a small chest. The one with the chest is I think not on the map (edited)

Generic grottos are not randomized yet. Once they get added, then it'll be worth adding that location.

19:31

The only grottos randomized are the one in the fenced area of hyrule field near Lake Hylia, and the wolfos grotto in Sacred Forest Meadow.

so the kakariko grotto isn't included (yet)?

Is there a way to show the dungeon item numbers in the broadcast view of the OoT item tracker?

@ShadeVortex that one is included yes

@Laguerre Yep. All of the icons in the tracker layout can be used in the broadcast layout as well.

its 3 deku salesmen (1 in grotto in LW, 1 in the south of LW, 1 south of hyrule field near lake hylia), wolfos grotto in SFM, and redead grotto in kak that are randomized

I recommend exporting both so you can copy+paste from one to the other. Or at least get an idea of how the layouts are coded.

redead grotto only requires bombs and maybe sun's song rite

just bombs

19:40

and killing them, but that is "free" in terms of logic

19:40

redead grave in graveyard needs suns

@JRJathome Where can I change that? New to fiddling with broadcast layout.

Click the gear menu in the tracker>packages>export overrides>broadcast layout. Then do the same for the tracker layout. This will create json files in Documents/emotracker/user_overrides/[pack name]. (edited)

19:43

You can open the json files in any text editor such as notepad. I personally use notepad++ though.

Got it. Thanks

also the adult bow game in kakariko was red for me yesterday, but I could play it

09:24

Im not sure whats the requirement for it according to the tracker but I guess its off

Adult bow game in Kak requires bow, adult, daytime, and 20 rupees

I didnt have a bow tho

Yea, you can still play since the game itself never checks, but you won't get a reward. The same is true for child archery in market, but there you do get a reward even if you don't have slingshot

Does the logic take that into account? Like you can even maybe get the slingshot from the child archery? that'd be funny lol

let me quickly check if I got a reward from the bow game

09:43

because Im pretty sure I did

i've gotten slingshot from child archery before, so yea it does take it into account

hmm I got a purple rupee

09:45

unless that counts as nothing

That's the default reward for winning after having gotten the main prize. So yea, it's nothing. (edited)

gotch ya

09:47

thanks for the explanation

My guess is it's because you're expected to have the slingshot by the time you reach the child gallery in vanilla, so the game doesn't check. As for the adult gallery, they don't want to give you a quiver upgrade until you get the bow, so they added the check.

just made a new version for the OoTR maptracker because i found a few more bugs

like what bugs were fixed

see https://github.com/Hamsda/OoTRMapTracker/blob/master/changelog

Is it in the application yet, or do we need to download a new version manually

currently still manual

16:10

not sure if EmoSaru has an eta for the new publishing process

Just FYI, as Hamsda mentioned, I'm revising the way that pack creators can get their packs to you to make it quicker and easier for them to self-manage this stuff (I need to not be a bottleneck). ETA is Friday, but life sometimes gets in the way. Definitely soon though, and then you can expect to see pack creators publishing their own updates through the app.

very nice

damn, you are quick!

All good, just wanted to know how to get the new version. You guys are all awesome

I have been developing an OoTR Map Tracker with the help of @Darkened5ky and we finally feel like it's ready for a beta release. It features mode settings for open forest / open door, setting the goal for spawning the rainbow bridge into Ganon's Castle, split maps for child/adult and full key/chest logic for all dungeons. Please give it a try and let one of us know via DM if you encounter any issues!

ootr_map_tracker_spleebie_darkened5ky.zip

3.52 MB

@Hamsda why is the stony of agony triggering so many locations to be visible? (blue)

That's because stone of agony lets you get hints about what items are in difficult locations from gossip stones. The blue locations are so you can keep notes from hints you've found. (edited)

14:02

Or mark off the location if it doesn't have anything important.

ah ok

14:03

thanks

thanks for explaining JRJ, was raiding

1

is there a reference for location jsons?

Not really, yet, in a documentation sense. My best advice is to look through emotracker official map enabled packs for lttpr (open and keysanity) for examples

18:08

If you get to (or are at) the point where you are seriously pursuing building a new pack to publish to users, please DM me so that I can give you a role here.

will keep that in mind, thanks

18:15

right now im just going over hamsda's and seeing if theres any problems or additional sequence breaks for glitchless rules

18:18

am i correct in assuming that access rules with brackets "[]" are sequence breakable, and if present and not in inventory make a location yellow? (edited)

That’s correct

18:21

By and large the display color is determined by the highest accessibility level from any satisfied rules

18:21

The one exception is orange - partial - which has to be computed specially

if you find any, let me know SauceRelic

I might have found a bug

19:19

@Hamsda

19:19

I have all song beside song of storms but the tracker is telling me I can do the frog mini game (edited)

19:19

but according to people I have to first play the song of storms

19:19

is that right?

Yeah thats one i noticed during a playthrough

19:20

Pretty sure you do need all 6 child songs

19:20

To get both items

yea

i think storms should be played last for that btw

19:21

im not sure if it breaks otherwise but thats how i've always done it (edited)

nah, order doesnt matter

19:21

storms will immediatly give you the "frogs in the rain" reward

19:22

and unlock the "fly catching" minigame, which needs the other 5 songs

but i do know the fly eating game won't happen till you play all 6 songs

oh i was not aware that you needed to play storms before you can do the flycatching, thought if you had the 5 other grey note songs, you can do that part. will fix

can you make a referenced section sequence breakable e.g. "hammer,[@Goron City/Link the Goron]"?

Good question, and not sure. I don’t think I’ve actually tried that combo...

hmm

19:31

maybe ill just leave this one alone then

I mean, I would suggest trying it

19:31

It might work

19:32

I just can’t guarantee it at the moment (not at my desk)

i think there was some issue with it when i tried it rooThink

rooThink

There’s no reason it shouldn’t be able to be fixed if there’s an issue (edited)

yeah it seems to just ignore the brackets and make it required

I’ll look into it

19:38

Probably won’t be a high priority patch unless people really need it though

found another bug @Hamsda

19:40

you assume zora tunic for the gtg underwater chest, rando logic doesn't

I should probably mark the tunics as sequence breakable pretty much everywhere, with the amount of hearts you usually get, skipping them is pretty easy, thanks for letting me know

using your logic sections as they are won't work because of what i just ran into

19:49

I'd just use the tunics themselves and get rid of those sections because its like "oh you can get this, but you havent yet"

i mean, you can leave tunics in for the dungeons, because the rando logic assumes them

They can be sequence broken

but that one chest would go unnoticed by people going by the tracker, and that could be bad if the rando put something there

Thats the main reason im going through this location tracker right now is to include as many sequence breaks as possible

i am aware, but the rando logic assumes them before sending you into either water or fire

thats the point of sequence breaks though, not going by the logic

19:52

kinda weird though that tunic is assumed for water but not for that room

What i was talking about wasn't the tunic itself, theres a section in this tracker that says you either found the tunic or are able to buy the tunic

yeah because thats how the logic works

Being able to buy it would lead you to buying it which would fulfill the first one, so it should just track if you have it or not

what does yellow map markers mean?

can be sequence-broken, color info is in faq

ah, makes sense

thing is tho the rando generator can make it so you either HAVE to find the tunics out in the wild or if they're not somewhere you can reach them it gives you a big enough wallet to buy them

20:00

so both options are viable by logic

Well both would end up with you getting the tunic

20:01

Heres what im talking about for the logic:

20:01

{ "name": "goron tunic", "access_rules": [ "redtunic", "wallet1,bombs" ], "item_count": 1 },

20:01

and this is referenced for the dungeons

20:01

But if you track the tunic it would just use that

20:03

Since whole sections like this can't be made breakable, using just the tunic allows the whole dungeon to be sequence broken without the tunic

new question: what kinda ruleset is the maptracker assuming for "sequence breaks/allowed glitches"? (edited)

I'm not even that familiar with the glitches so I'm not really looking for those

20:08

Most of the things I'm looking for are simple jumps, skilled play, and using bombchus instead of bombs that aren't in logic but still not hard to do or glitches

Actually, there is something

20:10

If you get the light and shadow medallions you can get Zelda's light arrows, wasn't marked for me on the tracker tho

20:10

probably didn't put it in right though

20:10

This is Hamsda's pack btw

All of Hamsda's adult stuff needs master sword marked as well

Neeeeeevermind, I'm stupid

20:11

I put light in the tracker instead of spirit

20:11

:'D

Yeah it works fine

yeah, i was asking cuz of the mido skip in lost woods via hookshot or bow and just backflipping over him

i think that isnt allowed because it counts as clipping, would have to check the ruleset again though

20:15

but yeah, i'm going with the "accessible" ruleset or whatever its being called

yah, thats why i asked which ruleset you assume for the tracker

that AA proposed

gonna have to look into that one then

I think thats allowed in AA's glitchless definition

20:15

https://pastebin.com/6gexzC9D

-Saving and resetting to change Link's position (savewarping) is a...

also sorry if this turned into an oot discussion EmoSaru, maybe we should just move this into a group pm?

sounds good to me

Sure although question - do you guys think it would be valuable to have game specific channels here?

I'd say leave that to the respective randomizer channels

20:25

I was primarily thinking about some of the logic breakdown stuff particularly as it translates into my logic format, but it would definitely be hard to keep on topic

Hey @Hamsda does "water" mean water temple completed?

yeah, water is water temple complete and watermed is the medallion, whatever source

in gerudo training grounds, what is "Above Maze"?

20:46

Wait nvm

Concerning the tunics, I think making the locations that require them might be a bit confusing for new players if a wallet leads to the tunic. I think locations should be visible based on what you have rather than what you can get. It might be better if two locations were made for the zora and goron shops that sell the tunics. You could use the hosted item tag for the tunics. This way, clearing the shop automatically enables the tunic, or enabling the tunic clears the shop location. Aga Tower in Emo's pack uses similar coding:

{ "name": "Agahnim", "color": "#701d43", "map_locations": [ { "map": "lightworld", "x": 1003, "y": 807 } ], "sections": [ { "name": "Agahnim", "access_rules": [ "[lamp],mst", "[lamp],sword,cape" ], "hosted_item": "aga1" } ] },

Alright i got a lot of stuff here, most of it was sequence breaking using bombchus but there were a few other fixes i made https://pastebin.com/7TFfT1sr

[JSON] OoT Randomizer Tracker edits - Pastebin.com

yeah I was thinking along the same lines JRJ, probably indicating the shops is best

In hindsight I should've made the edits myself but I need to get some sleep

though I want to do a lot of restructuring today

21:23

so we'll see how it all ends up

what was the latest update to the oot-item rando items only package?

Hey, i've got two quick questions if anyone's up for answering them; 1 - Why does ALTTP Rando Open mode's broadcast view not have the net or 1/2 magic, and why is the size all wrong causing pixel issues? Is there any way to fix that? 2 - In the OoT trackers, what's the point of the ticks on the songs? Thanks!

2 - tick to mark that you've checked that song's vanilla location

aaah, that makes sense, ty

It might not have it because net or 1/2 magic arent necessary to beat the game or to open up anything

09:15

I think

That’s correct - it’s fully customizable tho. Check #customization-support

10:47

The weird pixel scaling is actually a mistake I made back in the original release, but correcting it now would impact existing users’ streams, so I haven’t changed it

i must be totally blind but im using the ootrando_itemsonly_jrjathome pack and i can SEE in the images folder that there is an image for bombchus, but i dont see it on the actual layout?

@JRJathome - I believe he added items for them, which you’re free to add to the layouts. I believe JR had an explanation for not having them there by default, but I don’t remember them. Just FYI, always try to tag the pack author if you have questions about a particular pack.

I included a txt file in the zip with codes for additional items. They're fully coded and ready to be added to your override. (edited)

im using the oot rando with map and items and even though i have the slingshot, the chests are greyed out so i can highlight them

if you are using mine with the recent update, I added buttons for open/closed forest/door, so if you use a user override to get rid of them, you'll have to add them

i figured out why. i didnt check the deku shield

While watching the OoT race today, I decided that having skulltula tokens shown on the broadcast view would have been nice, so I pushed a small update for my pack to fix that. I removed the Hylian shield to make room, but am open to other suggestions.

removing hylian makes sense since you can buy it. I presume sticks and nuts aren't on there by default for similar reasons

Correct. I have them coded though, so you can easily customize your layout to add them.

Not sure if it's a logic thing, or wasn't realized, or maybe I goofed when playing with Hamsda Map Tracker, but you can get to Gorons & overworld locations at the very start of the game if bombs are one of your first items and I couldn't get the tracker to open those locations up without the slingshot

Do you have the Open Forest option on or off in the tracker? I believe having that option off adds the slingshot requirement since you have to beat the Deku Tree to reach Hyrule Field. Not sure if early bomb bag lets you escape through Goron City or not, so the map might still be incorrect. (edited)

01:23

@Dudude Dude I see your Z2 tracker has an update, but I'm getting a download error.

same, for some reason your pack zip doesn't appear to be available at the location listed in your repository.json

That's strange. I haven't pushed an update since your earlier test.

02:28

I'll look into it.

02:30

Okay fixed it, I might have misplaced a dude somewhere when typing the pack url. (edited)

@FayteFireix the logic for it looks like this: set_rule(world.get_entrance('Goron City from Woods'), lambda state: state.can_blast() and (world.open_forest or (state.has('Slingshot') and state.has('Kokiri Sword')))) so it requires either open forest or having sling and sword. i'm not sure why that is the case, because clearly you can walk around goron city with just bombs, but I stuck with the logic. you might want to ask in the oot rando discord about the logic behind this.

Fairly certain AA has said that in closed forest you're guaranteed to clear deku before leaving the forest area, so early bombs to goron city is a sequence break

I've had a seed where I didn't have a Kokiri sword but had bombs and had to go through goron city, closed forest

Awesome! Thanks for the response @Hamsda

just noted something: In the ALTTP Randomizer - Open Mode Tracker Ganon's Tower seems to be missing

It’s not missing

10:07

There’s no point in it being there

10:07

So it’s not

but there are chests in it

There are no chests in GT that can contain things you need to beat the game in open mode

... I have an open mode random running and I needed to get the Ice rod which was in Ganon's Tower

How were you in GT if you needed the ice rod?

but if you are in GT, why do you need ice rod?!

in open random even the crystals are in different dungeons

I’m well aware

10:10

And entering GT requires all of fhem

And to defeat the boss of turtle rock I need the ice rod and I will get the green amulet when I beat the boss

But you don’t need tgar

10:10

That

why do you need the green amulet?

Because you’re already in gt

on a side note, ever thought of making the (GO) icon automatically light up when you have the right combination of items to clear the required crystal dungeons?

Yes. But I’m not going to do it

booo!

10:12

Players should learn to tell when they’re in go mode

10:12

It’s a skill

10:12

And part of the game

10:13

Tracker equals memory aid

The only exception I've found to that was in go mode, no HS, HS was in dig, and shovel was in GT. I can't hover.

Still not worth tracking

10:14

Your end game is in GT

10:14

Always

Agreed, but that's the only exception I've found

Another exception would be all dungeon seeds and pedestal seeds, but still pretty unlikely that you'd need to track GT chests due to the prefill.

yeah i'm watching

?

i can only think of 1 instance where a GT double dipped was forced on us

16:49

and i think Saru was in that seed as well (was a weekly afterall)

16:49

we had to go into GT, find the flute, go to pendant mire, to get cane of somaria, to get GT big key from right side

16:49

but that 1 one time

16:50

it's extremely rare

16:51

but i think that was before they changed to logic to fill GT with junk

In any event, there are no chests in GT that you wouldn’t check in that scenario

16:52

So there’s no need to track them (edited)

oh i agree, i was merely saying there was a past instance

For sure, and I remember that race lol

hard to forget it, to be fair lol

Does pack support or customization-support the place for asking how to make a custom pack?

16:54

(Sounds like both and I do not want to be in trouble for asking in the wrong spot)

Start in #customization-support

16:56

If you’re serious about making a pack after making some progress, dm me and I’ll give you a role

hm...actaully, i'm not sure about this, because like i said i only use the OoT tracker because the map helps...but wouldn't there be a semi-need to track GT in the event of Entrance + keysanity?

I just was trying to make one for an ongoing LP of the Prime Trilogy.

That’s partly why there’s a separate keysanity pack and entrance isn’t supported yet

Note-to-self Do not do Insanity Keysanity if I used this tracker...

ah i see, yeah like i said i don't know much about trackers outside of the OoT one, i usually refrain from using

Keysanity is a plague

leads to migraines quite often, now that i think about it

But the main thing is entrance

I never done a LttP randomizer without Keysanity on.

thx for the insight @EmoSaru, please continue doing the great things that you do ^_^

I’m so sorry for your pain mech

How is that pain, I may be a Sado-masochistic Gamer, but...

16:59

I find no pain in Full 272 clearing Keysanity runs.

16:59

My fourth Keysanity was an Insanity Randomizer.

16:59

(Took ten hours)

Keysanity is a game where you flip a coin

17:00

Heads it’s fine

I do not get it.

Tails you spend 30 minutes hunting for the GT big key

For me it's usually the Eastern Palace big key

Anyway, this shouldn’t be in pack support

17:01

So I’m stopping now lol

Honestly, Only issue is The Green Pendent/Red Crystal last and not getting Pedistal and other out of the way items sooner...

17:01

I thought this was the place to ask on how to make a pack which is why I was in here.

That was fine, I’m talking about the keysanity suff

Oh.

17:02

Also, Making a Tracker for a game I never played is going to be a pain...

17:02

(Well, 14% of anyway)

@JRJathome Sorry for the ping if that's rude but I was wondering If I could discuss the OoT tracker with you. I have some suggestions regarding item codes to improve the Chat Hud tracking.

No problem. I'm in class right now, but I'll be happy to discuss it in a few hours.

Sure. At me.

Just a note for those who use the OoT item tracker. I've made a change to the bottle icon to make it work better with chathud. Unfortunately, it no longer counts to four bottles. This is a temporary solution until Emo releases an update for the tracker that supports a permanent solution.

has anyone made a tracker with glitches logic?

09:11

of course with the new update I can just mark unattainable stuff

@jaysee has made some glitches packs, but is still working on getting his package server set up.

10:06

(For LTTPR)

I've lost track on who makes the OoT packages, but I will ask for a silly feature. Is there a way to eventually add support for where the skulltulas and sheikah stones are located?

Doesn't that kinda take away from the fun?

It's been discussed before. It's certainly easier now with the new map tabs. The problem right now is hosting a consumable item such as the skulltula counter doesn't increase the count when you clear a location by right clicking it.

16:13

I know Spleebie was interested in adding it though.

@SKNI I've found the skulltulas before when I was younger, and I'm sure I could do it again. I see nothing wrong about asking for something that expedites the process.

16:35

Current LttP Trackers are comprehensive after all.

@JRJathome Any chance you could add a Go Mode item to OoT items only? been using yours (with my own customizations) and that would be a good little indicator. Thanks. (edited)

I could, but it wouldn't be automated. It would be a simple toggle that you'd have to click. I'm going with Emo's wish that a Go Mode item doesn't tell you when you're in go mode. Runners should be skilled enough to realize when they've reached go mode. (edited)

oh yea i didn’t care about automation just an easy indicator for stream.

I know, @wolfman2000 , but I still think it's part of the fun. It would be cool if the randomizer was developed will enough it could actually randomize where the skulltulas can be found. But that may be a while.

there’s a skullomizer already. it’s just skulls and only works on emu so far as I know, it is a thing.

But does it work with a randomizer rom, it does it have to be a clean one?

random skulltulla locations sounds like a nightmare

17:03

Not sure how well that'd work with randomizer, since it needs to make sure you can actually collect X skulltullas in order to place an item in the skulltulla house

Considering the randomizer only requires 50 at most, they could just remove the other 50 at random.

Imagine skulltula counts as a trigger for ganon bridge though

100 skulls for rainbow bridge

Right

17:12

But you can also just separate skulltula house rewards from being randomized.

Let’s keep suggestions for the games themselves to their discords, where things might actually happen based on them

If it happens, packs need to be updated to compensate, but you're right.

Yeah, we got off topic. The original request was a skulltula map on the tracker. We could use a map tab for that. Ideally, all the skulltula locations on that tab would add 1 to the skulltula counter automatically when you clear them via right-click, but it currently doesn't work that way. Not sure if it's a bug or intentional.

@jaysee sorry if this isn't the right section to ask/talk about this but was there any plans to add more than just key items to the FF4:FE pack?

Very short term, I'll have characters added

14:49

Then after that, I'll have map and logic support

14:49

I don't have plans to add bosses to my pack

14:50

I might add D. Mist though for NFL stuff

I was actually about to look into making a location tracker for FF4:FE

I was waiting on some features that recently got added to make location tracker

well since you're on it, I'll lave it in your capable hands

sombreroguy

Perfect, that's what I'm looking for though. So I'm looking forward to seeing those updates

18:57

I always like having characters for viewers.

Here's a sneak peak of the new pack layout I've been working on. Good news is dungeon information is condensed and will now be visible on the broadcast window. Bad news is if you're using an override, this update will break it. I'll most likely release this update when the next OoTR update is released, but I wanted to give you guys a heads up.

Image attachment

Dang that looks hot pieLewd

pieLewd

I was excited to find those boss pictures. They're from the OoT 3D boss rush challenge, if I recall correctly, but I'll take them. They were just the right size too.

20:36

The free icon is one I made myself by shrinking down a screenshot I found.

That looks really good man, excited for release

Looks really good!

For some reason Jaysee's owg package shows Dam as unavailable location and can't be cleared. (I'll ping possibly later if I see other things that seems silly.)

Other note about Jaysee's owg package. You haven't formated the amount of chests in EP the same way as other dungeons. In other dungeons you have total item number in "Dungeon" but in EP you have only 3.

Remind me later to look at it again

09:39

Dam, that's an interesting error...

Hey. I played other seed and noticed that at one point moon pearl changed Dam's availability

12:06

Also if you don't mind me asking about one thing in the logic. Let's say you have pearl, lamp, hammer and bow. According to the tracker you have access to TT, hype cave etc. (DMD) for some reason it doesn't work for PoD in the tracker. It changes with glove or Aga 1 kill. Seems like just a mistake to me.

double checking everything again

16:51

there were a few things intentionally not added to this pack due to the actual logic not considering it

16:52

@ozipone which of the 2 are you using? Autoboots or no? I might have done updates on one but not the other.

Okay. Fixed dam issue, I lumped it in with Swamp Palace for whatever reason.

17:06

I'm reading through logic right now to see what the access rules are

17:08

You do technically have access to PoD via either a DMD from Trock or from the bridge area on the bottom.

I'm using autoboots

let me double check some groupings and actual logic

17:08

I do have access showing for pyramid ledge and catfish with bow, lamp, hammer and pearl

17:09

so seems like a grouping error on my part that I thought I had already fixed

Did you notice what I meant with the EP part?

Yeah. I'll fix that

17:11

that was a late change on my part

17:12

there's a couple v29 fixes I need to add in as well

Well I will bug you later if I find something that I think is weird

please do

sombreroguy

So does the whitelist commands and things like that work for the !hud options in FE pack @jaysee

umm.. i don't know

19:26

I imagine they would

chat hud commands are universal

19:27

and white/blacklists are shared across all pacls

19:27

the item codes used for tracking are based on the codes used by the packs tho

19:27

so they are pack dependent

Image attachment

19:28

to get the item codes

better to actually just look inside the zip file, honestly

19:30

otherwise you end up with problematic overrides

19:30

I'm actually going to be adding a menu command to generate a list of codes to a text file that you can read soon

disregard jaysee :p

19:39

@Unknownavailability my character packs will let you do

!hud mop

sombreroguy

@a2yerold you can using pinned locations

Image attachment

19:56

Image attachment

19:56

Image attachment

unknow29MogChamp

1

19:57

just gotta make broadcast layouts now

question: is it possible to make the number field of something be text inputted, bcuz since there's 50 skulls in oot i'd rather get a bunch at a time and then enter the number of how many i got, than have to click it a total of 50 times over a rando that requires skulls

That's not possible for the pack devs.

There is an update in the works that'll add a basic math engine, so you could add like 5 with one click, but text input has almost no chance of being added

oh ok

FYI, the math stuff will likely not be what allows you to change the increment (edited)

@Hamsda I think Twinrova should have a requirement of having the hookshot attached to it in zootr.

oh yeah, i might be missing that

10:22

thanks for letting me know

npnp. I tried getting over there with hover boots last night, got hurt by the statue, and gave up. Doing spirit without hookshot is pretty balls anyways.

seems like my oot randomizer is broken?

JRJathome - Yesterday at 10:29 PM FYI, as mentioned before, I just pushed an update that overhauls the look of the OoT Items Only pack. If you have a user_override for this pack, it likely just broke, so you'll have to remake it. Sorry.

oh hurr

17:25

my bad

17:25

just saw that

17:25

woah this looks FRESH

17:25

thanks JRJ!

OoTR 2.0 is out and so is a new version of our OoTR Map Tracker. Layouts from before should still work but I updated the default tracker_layout with the new map tabs which you should definitely check out

updated mine as well to now include the 2.0 locations by default, have fun with 2.0 people

y'all doing good work, thanks

the tracker looks great hamsda. hats off to you guys who make these trackers. making our gaming experience so much better. andyHeart

andyHeart

glad you like it! thank emo for making such a flexible tracker cirGasm

cirGasm

guessing it'll be a while before packs update for 2.0 right

Spleebie - Today at 4:32 PM OoTR 2.0 is out and so is a new version of our OoTR Map Tracker. Layouts from before should still work but I updated the default tracker_layout with the new map tabs which you should definitely check out :smiley: Hamsda - Today at 5:33 PM updated mine as well to now include the 2.0 locations by default, have fun with 2.0 people :smile:

21:34

My Item Only tracker has dungeon item counts updated as well.

we came prepared rooHappy

rooHappy

yep all three already updated. Go team

21:56

Personally I've been sitting on the major changes for 2.0 (grottos and freestanding HPs) for weeks already

Thank God for 2.0 beta period amirite

ye

@JRJathome has there been thought in your oot tracker to revert to the medallion view? I find it very hard in the new version to see what medallions that I have at a glance

I've got ideas I'm working on.

00:35

Yes, the dungeon pictures are likely going away. The layout won't be exactly the same as before though.

Do you work on a public github repo that is pullable? I would be interested in reverting to the old version for the time being (edited)

00:36

(also thanks for the time and effort you put in for the amazing tracker!)

I do have the old version available. Let me update the chest counts for v2 real quick.

@Xopar I just added the old version to my repository. It should show up in EmoTracker's package manager now.

Thanks a ton!

00:59

Something of note, clicking install next to the package downloaded it but didn't swap to it. I deleted all of my emotracker packages and installed only the old tracker. I was able to swap to it by selecting it under Options > Packages > Installed Packages

I noticed with this new package as well as 2 of JC's packages that the package manager doesn't think they've been installed correctly, but they still show up in the list of installed packages if I restart the tracker. Not sure that it's something I can fix on my end or a bug with EmoTracker.

01:02

As long as the download works, I don't mind all that much.

Installing packs does not auto switch, by design.

01:08

Unless it’s your first pack.

So after uninstalling all other packs, it left the tracker blank.

01:09

And clicking install does not change the button to "reinstall" and lets me click install again

01:10

The pack currently active is the old version

Image attachment

That’s interesting. I haven’t seen those issues in a while though... make sure you’re always installing the latest updates, and that your virus scanner isn’t interfering with the downloads. Other than that, I can’t look into anything until,after SGDQ anyway.

01:10

If you’re seeing the new repos tho, you’re up to date

01:10

So I dunno

I mean everything is working for me haha, figured if its some sort of bug might be good to know about

Okay

01:12

For what it’s worth, install and reinstall do exactly the same thing, so it’s not concerning.

As I mentioned, the only packs that I'm getting the bug with are the 3 latest ones. My new pack, and JC's OWG packs. They're installing correctly, so I'm not worried. It's just odd.

Make sure you don’t have a folder version of any of those packs in your pack directory. (edited)

I don't.

K

That was the first thing I checked

Anyway, bedtime for me, flight in the morning.

Uninstalled. Deleted directories in Documents and AppData. Reinstalled the tracker and package. Still had to close the program and manually switch to the tracker.

01:16

Image attachment

Night, Emo.

Night and thanks for your work too!!

01:20

I also checked to see where else it was happening and it is also happening in JC's OWG as well (as JR says). Everything else seems to work.

@Hamsda on your ootr map the item counts for the medallion dungeons confuse me a little? so like the fire temple says 4(+2) that means 4 item pool locations, map, and compass and everything else is small keys, but clicking the item icon goes up to 5. at first I thought it was to account for if maps and compasses weren't place, but then it would need to go up to 6, not 5. then I thought boss key? but the child dungeons go +1 as well. was hoping you could clarify how youre meaning it to work

I probably just did a dumb and put the wrong count there (edited)

08:05

max should be the total, so say 6 for fire

08:06

I'll take a look once this migraine goes away

@Coy thanks for letting me know, fixed in 2.0.0.1

@Hamsda couple possible bugs from the run I just finished (my first finish lol) bongo bongo was never showing in logic, even when I had a full inventory, and the item count for ice cavern wasn't including how the heart piece inside is now part of the dungeon pool, so it should be 2 items in ice cavern instead of 1, if I'm understanding it right

15:06

@Hamsda ps thank you so much for this package, I could not play the game without it, not even a little bit lol, and especially thanks for the quick update to 2.0

15:08

oh you already done fixed it in the update sinc eI started the run lmao

yeah i noticed bongo and ice

15:11

thanks for letting me know anyways!

15:11

and glad you like it, I'd be bad at rando as well without it

Trackers and maps save me

is there any more FF packs made? I am trying to actually find one that supports FF1

I'm pretty sure all of the completed packs are already in the Package Manager. I don't know that anyone's working on a FF1 pack for EmoTracker.

I found some new pictures for Forest, Water, Shadow and Dodongo's Cavern. I'm curious to hear if it's easier to tell when these are toggled on.

Image attachment

a bit i suppose. i guess i dont see the need for pictures when they’re labeled anyway. just makes it harder to see the text on the pictures. imo.

Yeah, I'm working on a version without them. This is a band-aid fix in the meantime, and some people like the pictures.

no chance you could make separate objects for both so we can decide with overrides? DC_label_pic and DC_label or something?

The text on the image is its own object already in the current version. The only thing that would need to be changed is the medallion images would have to be turned into progressive toggles so you can toggle them on and off.

17:41

Current plan is something like this that has a simple label with the stone/medallion under it. I'm also grouping some icons together so it's easier to scroll through them. Grouped icons are Spiritual Stones, Fire/Water (Forest is kept separate because of the song you earn for getting it) and Shadow/Spirit. (edited)

Image attachment

Just update my tracker https://github.com/Hamsda/OoTRMapTracker/releases/tag/v2.0.0.2 Mostly cosmetic work this time, including a taller item layout used for the broadcast and vertical views

anyone know why Sauce Relic's SM item tracker doesn't show norfair item locations? I can get them to show with f11, but can't mark them or show up even with all items marked as collected

might just be a typo in one of the items required for access, happened to me as well

14:30

@SauceRelic will probably just have to take a look at it

yeah I msged him directly, so i'll just wait

@Hamsda it looks so much nicer with the color, I didnt even know I wanted this!

15:18

I was clicking medallions first before cycling through them before cause I only know the colors, not the symbols

yeah I like it much better, too at first I thought it was hard to distinguish between items you have and the ones you don't, but it is still very much recognizable

15:19

I know the symbols, but its still faster going by colors

if I accidently mark off an item location, is it possible to bring it back once it disappears?

F11

omg, thank you, holy moly

#faq is worth the read

youre a smart man

@Cinaeth it was a problem with my location logic, you should see an update in a few minutes

@SauceRelic sounds great! I'm just combining it with a lttp tracker

15:31

wish I knew a little about making trackers so I can make a single sm / lttp rando tracker with maps

Yeah nobody's taken the plunge on that project yet

15:35

I'm strongly considering working on one myself

15:36

Also update should be up

Hey Hamsda, I just started playing the OoT randomizer a few days ago, and I've been using your tracker as i get my bearings. It's been super helpful. Nice work! Was wondering if you had any plans though to add in the Skulltula locations at any point?

I was thinking about it afabs, but that would really clutter the map :/ Maybe two separate maps for child and adult would be good Or just one location per area where you can click them off sorta thing

Yeah, I was thinking more the latter. Might be easier to read if it was structured similar to all the chests in the dungeons? Only reason I'm asking is because last night i spent several hours looking for the bomb bag. Turns out I needed 20 of those things

Yeah not sure what I like the best rooThink

rooThink

I'll have to play around with it in the next few days or so and see how it would work out

Cool. Obviously no pressure or anything. Thanks for chatting, and thanks again for making such a good tracking pack!

@Hamsda, I tried adding skulltulas to your tracker for fun. Not sure if it's completely finished, and I'm missing some logic. But i can send it to you if you want to look at it

@SauceRelic got the update, seems to be working

Good to hear rooHappy

rooHappy

to be honest, and without knowing anything about code, combining the lttp and sm maps shouldn't be too hard? you just need to put in the cross over doors and put in access logic for those doors?

Yeah it's not that different

15:50

There are a few logic changes due to where the doors are but it's not that much extra

what my trackers look like with both open

Image attachment

15:50

haven't marked SM cause I'm just getting into marking item locations now to learn the game

15:51

eventually I won't need the maps, but yeah

Now if only I could get their website to work, then I could actually try out the randomizer pieThink

pieThink

huh? last I checked the website was working?

15:52

yup, website is there...

When i try to select my sm rom it goes to a blank screen

https://smalttp.speedga.me/randomizer

Super Metroid and A Link to the Past combined item Randomizer Rand...

Super Metroid and A Link to the Past combined item Randomizer

Also I know they have the option to use casual logic for the sm part now, but I haven't implemented it in my tracker yet fyi

not sure if there's a cookie that made mine able to generate without roms..

Everything is tournament right now

site lets me choose casual or tourney logic

15:53

for SM

Yeah I just haven't implemented casual logic in my tracker

ah got it

15:54

you have it as an option though xD just need to find what changes in the logic differences?

Casual logic i think is pretty close to the "intended" way of getting items in vanilla

15:55

But I'm implementing all the other logic in the next update

nice nice

Not sure if this is the right place to be asking, but is there a link to any documentation for how to create a pack? Tried scanning the other channels but didn't see anything

let me know if you want me to test soemthing then? I'm really just playing to play - I couldn't perform glitches and speed run if my life depended on it though

@afabs not really, I think we all just started by looking at other packs. If you are serious about it, Emo can give you a role for it that gives access to a channel where you can ask questions specifically

ah, gotcha. Alright, for now I'll start by playing around with some of the JSON in some other packs and seeing what I can make. Thanks!

some programming knowledge is helpful, but not really required to understand the structure of the JSONs

yeah, i'm a software engineer by trade actually. I actually stumbled on your git repo while I was slacking off at work earlier and the JSON didn't look too difficult to parse out. I just need to spend a couple hours really looking at it

So I was actually way closer to finishing the other logics than i thought

16:18

Update should be out sometime tonight rooHappy

rooHappy

All logics update for SM tracker is out, considering the size of the update i wouldn't be surprised if there's a few bugs so please tell me if you notice anything pieHug

pieHug

First attempt to reduce the amount of scrolling through stones and medallions. I hate it. I think it looks awful.

Image attachment

18:17

I think I could combine the medallions like the blue and red pendants are in the lttp packs, but there's no good way to combine the stones.

oh thats actually a great idea

@Hamsda possible logic error with ruto's letter on the map that no one would ever notice or care about, but, unless theres information I dont know (likely), having ruto's letter in your only bottle shouldnt put having a bottle in logic until you can access zora's domain as a child to use the letter, which I think only affects big poes and the water trial, iirc

19:17

you may have done this on purpose as a cost to the quality-of-life improvement that came with combining the bottles

i'll take a look, though I dunno if i wanna keep the bottles like they are now anyways rooThink

rooThink

casual logic just means it only requires IBJs, walljumps, and shinesparks. also midair morph.

casual logic is definitely the only one that doesn't require ibjs and midairs

19:30

not sure about walljumps

19:31

Other than like the etecoon items

casual logic requires IBJs and midairs.

00:56

unless.... the regular casual logic doesn't require them?

00:56

in the crossover randomizer, it does.

00:57

Image attachment

i'll take a look at casual logic

07:04

casual logic for super metroid standalone is very different from the crossover

07:05

for example...

let canAccessWs items = canUsePowerBombs items && haveItem items Super

07:05

from the casual logic

07:06

this is continuous walljump

07:06

casual logic mostly just removes hellruns, suitless maridia, and ice clips

07:07

and leaves most other stuff unchanged, iirc

07:07

also doesn't expect WRITG passage with charge+ice, instead it requires hijump, space or bombs

07:10

it is also weirdly inconsistent at some points

07:11

it won't require gate glitch to crocomire, but will require it to gold torizo

07:11

even though croc gate glitch is easier imo and doesn't require that you burn a ton of supers

07:12

so yeah @SauceRelic it's pretty different from your expectations it seems

Alright well that's going to be trickier to implement then

08:34

I'll have to look at it myself and see what's different

If it makes you feel better JR Im gonna implement this for my tracker to reduce the horrible right clicking as well

08:57

Im probably gonna make the JJ spirit stone all three colors for spheres, and then splice the meds like the alttp one (edited)

@SauceRelic I don't know which locations should be accessible with casual logic, but I can see there are different locations made available when you change tourn / casual

Yeah casual might just not require those tricks in earlier areas

09:28

Because bomb torizo requires bombs to be in logic, but all other difficulties you can get out with a midair morph

actually, I can compare

09:29

are there specific areas we're not sure about in the logic?

09:29

comparing against another tracker I can swap from casual to tourn

I think we were all trying to compare the differences between sm and lttp+sm logic

09:30

I had just woken up though when I responded

http://smalttpr.mymm1.com/tracker/?game=metroid3 - this one uses cross over logic

09:31

they're not familiar with coding for emo tracker, so they have a website

09:34

has a github too, so... for you guys who know code, should be easy to check logic?

smalttp and sm alone are VERY different

I plan to poke at it later today when I have time to sit at my battlestation. It’s just a matter of learning the syntax.

casual logic is much less casual in sm alone

I think I've actually managed the wave gate glitch in brinstar, and that's about it for them.

Is there a way to change the items.json codes for HUD without breaking a tracker? the one I'm using fills all 4 bottles with the letter when using Ruto, and I'd like to change some of the calls.

Dunno if this is the right place for it, but the latest update for the OoTR Map Tracker has a logic error in it

01:54

It doesn't know that you can access items in Zora's River as an Adult

Which author? Looks like there's a couple.

Spleebie and Darkened5ky

What do you have for inventory to light up Zora's River? Or does it just not light up at all as Adult? (edited)

It didn't light up at all

02:00

But I was able to get both of the heart piece locations with Hovers

02:02

And get to the Grotto at Zora River without anything

Seems to be an issue with child vs adult. They used the same location for both, so they included the bomb bag requirement that that kid version has.

I've let one of the devs know, they're gonna fix it

02:05

The devs of the tracker that is

With my limited knowledge of OoT (it's been years since I've played) it looks like Slingshot, Silver Scale, Kokiri Sword, and 3 pendants grants access to the River. Not full access, but some stuff.

02:10

Also looks like last week they were asking about some difference in being able to layer access rules for locations.

yeah the problem in oot is that some areas can be accessed by both ages, but with different requirements in terms of items. so you want to have the location on both maps (so it gets removed from both when you check it), but optimally only be shown on the map for the age you can actually collect it with.

The “map visibility rule” thing is going to happen

1

❤

@Hamsda I can't seem to get the soft soil patch skulls to be recognized as obtainable at all

oh probably because I changed the bottles rooThink

rooThink

04:09

i'll have to take a look later tonight

Hey @Hamsda , just downloaded the recent update to your tracker and saw the skulltula locations were added. Just wanted to say thanks. This is super helpful. I'm using it now, and I don't think it clutters the map too badly either. Only thing I've noticed is that now there are two skulltula token icons in the item checklist. Could these be consolidated into one? Thanks again!

they might be in the future, but I couldn't come up with something good

This is just a mockup, but it's more what I had in mind for my pack. Not that mess that I posted above.

Image attachment

Tracker and broadcast view are finished. I'm very satisfied at how it turned out.

Image attachment

15:26

Had a heck of a time tinkering with the margins to make the bottom row line up correctly, but it was worth it.

Looks good

What's the design purpose of Broadcast View? Less chrome around the display?

The main idea is you can set the background of the broadcast view to something you plan to color key out in OBS without affecting the main tracker layout. If you did that in other trackers, you'd have to deal with the ugly green or magenta backgrounds as you're trying to play. (edited)

Ah ha, got it. Cool.

You can also set up the broadcast layout to be different than the tracker layout. In case of my tracker, I'm hiding the chest counts on the broadcast display since that's more useful to the streamer.

Something in the app code also removes "ugly magenta" from source icon images too.

16:02

Like a "Master View" for the streamer and "Broadcast View" for the viewers. Neato.

The broadcast view window name also never changes, so it never invalidates your OBS window capture settings

Ah ha, now that makes sense.

But yeah, it's specifically designed to allow you to have a potentially more attractive but less functional layout for stream, without impacting the usability of the tracker for you.

18:35

People have done some pretty crazy layouts with it.

Speaking of broadcast layouts, i just updated the SM layout to remove the items that appear above the game, and also made it look more like the standard layout

@SauceRelic Feel free to work together on the SMALttPR emopack. I didn't mean to steal your thunder.

No not at all, I was actually hoping somebody else would step up after i did the sm pack

Ah ha, gotcha.

Just wanted to lay the rest of the groundwork

I've already rewritten the logic like 10 times.

19:10

What I mean to say is that I've rewritten the logic 10 times in 10 different languages 10 different ways.

Nice

So. While I'm going cross-eyed looking at this crap, I have a sense of what I'm doing, lol.

That's encouraging

"note": "Based on SauceRelic's Super Metroid Randomizer pack and Fouton's ALttSM Randomizer pack"

These jsons do get kinda messy

19:11

Also thanks pieHug

pieHug

<3

19:11

That's in the manifest file. Whether or not it'll be shaved out for being an invalid key, I have no idea.

The emotracker program does actually ignore anything on a line starting with //

19:12

So you can do comments

You know. I could totally comment it out. You're right.

Also another small update for tonight: I added alternate difficulty images with borders in case anybody's customizations made it hard to see. Use images/diff_***_border.png for the respective item "img":'s

Hey, everyone. I just pushed the new layout for my items only pack, and likely broke your overrides again. Good news for those who liked the images: I've also published that as a separate pack that you can find in the package manager. If you have overrides, you can transfer them over, and they should still work for the most part.

22:13

So there's 3 different layouts from me now, and I don't anticipate making anything new, so your overrides should be safe for a while. I'll probably only make changes from this point on if a change in the randomizer affects the tracker in some way.

Getting to that point in a tracker is so bittersweet. On one side you want to keep making improvements to make it as good as you can but you dont know what to do with it, on the other hand youve done such a great job up to that point that you dont have to monitor it anymore

At that point you probably start creating a la-mulana tracker so you have something to work on for the rest of your life

@Spleebie please add a skulltula counter to locations

21:18

I never remember anything about them and want to fucking kill myself because I was in last place today by 3 and a half hours

Here's a hot tip:

21:19

git gud

@Otome Example:

{ "name": "Know-it-All Brother's House", "chest_unopened_img": "images/goldskull.png", "chest_opened_img": "images/unused/SOLD OUT.png", "item_count": 1, },

You can add that to Kokiri Forest as a reminder. I don't plan to write definitions for all 100.

Also if you really need skulltula tracking, hamsda has it in his pack if you use f11 to show all locations and enable tracking for unavailable items, as they're always disabled to hide them if you don't need them

Actually, Hamsda added an icon that turns on the skulltula locations.

Oho, I did not know

Yep. Just below the Skulltula counter and to the right of the silly rumble pack thing. (I forget what it does.)

Thats stone of agony, lets you see hints

21:35

In randomizer at least

sponsored by @Coffie ❤

I always play with all locations shown (maybe I like to see red), but I don't really want to see skulltulas. I'll try some more then maybe I'll just user override the locations to remove them

on @jaysee overworld glitches pack, it has an "Update Available." When I click, the progress bar goes all the way up, but then stays "Update Available." Anyone know what could be wrong?

generally things like that are an overzealous antivirus

I don't have an antivirus program installed right now

12:17

other than windows defender I guess

12:17

is there a log that might have spit out an error somewhere?

Did you unzip the current pack? EmoTracker loads unzipped packs before zipped packs.

nope, not unzipped

12:20

guess I can delete it and try to reinstall

12:23

nope, now it won't install at all via the package manager. Same issue, progress bar goes all the way up but nothing changes

12:23

interesting, it did download it though

12:24

and it does show up in installed packages

12:24

just not in the package manager

12:25

this is the only package that has a problem... it's weird

That bug I've seen with a couple of the newer packages, including some of my own. Not sure what's causing it.

Hmmm

I had the same thing with trying to update Hamsda's tracker earlier this week. Ended up deleting the files I had for it in the folder, reinstalled and worked normally.

i had a similar issue fixed by deleting my overwrites

FYI, always be wary of your virus scanner when you see issues like this

13:30

They’ve been known to interefere

13:31

Lol

13:31

I butt attached

10/10

If the file ended up in the right spot it’s probably a tracker bug

13:32

Thanks

13:32

FML

Ye. I don't think I can break the updater. Or can I? sombreroguy

sombreroguy

14:48

If you have the latest pack, access to Moth fight will require Pearl

@Lotuski24 [Dave] @A Person I've found the bug and crushed it. Turns out I made a mistake and had that stage pointing to a nonexistent file. Should be working now after you update. Thanks for the heads up.

you're welcome

something that bothers me the most atm is the spirit and shadow chest count overlaps the medallion/stone. any way to fix that?

You should be able to change the font size with "badge_font_size". I chose not to because those counts aren't present in the broadcast view, which I assumed most people would be capturing using OBS.

19:23

The issue comes from the double digits taking up more space than I expected, and I can't move the icon further to the left without increasing the size of the canvas, which throws off my other margins.

I have an item on my list to offer some additional controls here, like max badge sizes, so the text will shrink to fit

19:49

obviously that doesn't help right now, but it's coming

anyone know how to make the sm bosses individual item tiles like the rest of the items in foutons SMZ3 pack?

eg more like how they appear sm pack

I looked in his pack, and he does have the individual boss icons in the images folder, but it doesn't look like he has code for them. You would have to export an override for the items.json to add them, which is not recommended.

darn

12:49

ok ty

I've released a keysanity Items Only pack for OoT. In addition, I've added a magic icon for tracking your magic upgrades. This icon has been added to all 4 layouts.

The items only- old layout pack keeps saying there is an update available, even after updating is there anything that could be wrong with it?

I know if you unzipped it it will do that as it will always load the unzipped version first

Found the problem. I had renamed the zip file at some earlier point, so there's probably 2 zip files with the same uid. Please delete the one that had a dash - in the file name instead of an underscore _. I changed them for consistency and so the zip file would match the uid.

@jaysee was using your OWG tracker and noted that superbunny cave was not marked as accessible with just boots and hammer

08:10

you should be able to clip across to edm and then clip on to the top of the TR portal, open with hammer, and then head to superbunny

Let me double check actual logic access requirements again

09:03

There are some things you can access by the required skillset that didn't make it into randomizer, so I left them out of the pack

09:04

That one I likely just missed, though

09:05

Logic requires some crazy application combos and misses some of the easier ones

09:09

I followed v28 logic, including its bugs when I made the pack, I need to set aside some time to completely go through the updates on v29 and update

oh btw jaysee. I have the same problem as some other have had. The pack only shows "Install" on the package manager evven if I already have it and I haven't overridden anything

i'm going to look at that today as well

10:40

OHHH.. looking at JRJathome's post above. I'm betting that's exactly what happened with mine

10:40

umm.. I guess I'll just not specify the version in my zip files anymore

10:47

Go to <Documents>\EmoTracker\packs

10:48

and delete the following files:

alttprando_v28_overworld_glitches_open_jaysee87.zip alttprando_v28_overworld_glitches_noboots_open_jaysee87.zip alttprando_v29_overworld_glitches_open_jaysee87.zip alttprando_v29_overworld_glitches_noboots_open_jaysee87.zip

10:50

wait a few minutes from now before reopening emotracker, to redownload the packs. I just uploaded to my repo with the changes to my naming

I did that now jaysee. Same thing still. "Available. Install." but I can open it

hmmm....let's see what I can figure out. I might need some help checking for other errors on my end.

Double check your repository json and manifest jsons too. I found in mine that I had made a typo in the UID for two of my packs that caused some headaches.

I think I have them matching. I'll double check again. Or I might need a second set of eyes in a bit. I'm getting ready to do another race, so back in 30ish

@ozipone delete the files and try again please. I think I got it going this time

1

variable and name typos, the worst enemy of any programmer NotLikeThis

NotLikeThis

Anyone that uses my OWG pack, would you prefer it follows logic exactly, or include possibilities of things not accounted for in logic, but still allowed underneath the OWG ruleset?

17:44

Eventually, that should mean the exact same thing. There's a group working on documenting every single application we can, and then glitched and owg logics can get an overhaul.

I know it's a lot of work but the most preferable thing would be to have "Not in logic but reachable" color code. That's a thing that can teach a lot about the glitches you don't know. If there is no separate color then I think it should follow logic

06:44

Example. You don't have titan mitts but you have everything else to beat the game. IP is crystal and the only thing that logic wants mitts for. If the tracker said that there's a sequence break into IP it could help people learn some new tricks

that should appear yellow usually, but it entirely depends on how the pack author has marked it

I was wary about including not in logic but reachable when I created this pack for v28, as some of these sequence breaks do create softlocks with the required mechanics

09:24

Most notably, Mothula fight did not have moon pearl as a potential requirement. If you beat Aga1 and moon pearl is on Moth, the only way to get inside the back half is to fake flute in the darkworld to 4 or 7, then either pull a rupee tree, rupee statue, or Thieve's Town gate to get Link state, then either Dark World DMA or Fake Flute in the darkworld to 1, then do a crazy clip to dash jump from Trock entrance screen to map wrap over to Skull Woods, and while being ultra careful with movement so you can hit the entrance with fire rod, and enter and hopefully not scroll lock in the process.

yeah for glitched logic packs this becomes kinda crazy

Also, logic requires mitts for Blacksmith/Purple Chest in OWG

Yeah, I know that but I just meant that in that specific situation mitts would only be needed for IP

ye. Just deciding on full overhaul (including toggling by techniques) or just some minor things for now

@Kauz have you noticed any other things that got missed?

No, that was the only one that really stuck out. I’m also relatively new to OWG so I wouldn’t be the best to ask honestly

Actually. I'm not going to "fix" this pack per se. I'm going to be doing a complete overhaul and redo of the pack.

19:21

Actually, I don't know. I'll do a quick fix for that tonight

Should be fixed. Next updates will be a complete overhaul of the pack

@Hamsda would it be possible to change the logic for the Gerudo area locations to work with the Open Gerudo logic

Is the logic different than if you just clicked on the gerudo membership to activate it?

in the current update, most of the checks do not appear with just the bridge being built, some still "require" hookshot / longshot or Epona song

That's true. Perhaps some of those locations should have a check for the membership card instead of hookshot/epona.

unlikely because I wanna stick with AAs original repo

@JRJathome i was playing around with making some modifications to your oot items only pack for my own use and noticed that the spirit and shadow canvases were off a bit. treasures should have a width of 16 but they have a width of 20, causing some overlap. not sure if that was intentional. also the free reward could be centered like the other singletons. i added maps, compasses, Bks, and a go mode indicator, not sure if anyone else would want those. made 26 individual counting imagines cuz i didn't remember collectable item type was a thing

(edited)

The width of 20 was intentional as those dungeon chest numbers have 2 digits. The numbers were being cut off with the width of 16. The current setup isn't ideal, but it's not an issue in the broadcast window, which I figured more people would use with OBS. Emo's got plans on improving the number badges. Once that support is added, I will change those back to a width of 16. (edited)

22:51

As for the free reward, I wanted it to line up with the other stones/medallions in that column. I think it would bother me more to have that one centered when the others are not.

Hi! I recently finished a pack for an items only tracker for the Resident Evil HD Remaster randomizer. I just need to clean up the images folder from a bunch of junk images from when I was deciding how things should look. I'd like to set up the pack for distribution, so if anyone could help me with what I need to do for that, I'd appreciate it!

Looks like maybe the update fixed a bit of how the badges work? They're not cut off on 16. And I completely understand about the column symmetry for the freebie.

04:58

Image attachment

I made a minor change

04:58

It's still not the final version

04:58

they are technically being clipped on the sides a bit

04:59

but they no longer will force the item size to grow and break alignment

Ah. Will they change to being just white text with a black outline and make the box transparent? Like, as an end-goal?

that's potentially an additional feature that I will consider adding

05:00

but no

05:00

not by default

05:00

the real change is to add an authorable size constraint and have the text scale to fit

Ooh. Sounds good. Thanks!

@Fouton (PugHUD) Sorry to bother you but the alttp+sm pack looks like you added a check to track turn in for bottle to sick kid. However it appears that may have broken the !hud bottle command. There is no code added for the check mark so now !hud bottle just turns on and off the check. (edited)

I think theres a way to still make it work

i tried a few things and was only able to manipulate the check mark now.

Are you talking about the keysanity or the regular?

22:04

nvm I see it

how is the item defined?

Image attachment

yeah...

22:08

that type of progressive toggle setup, for just a marker, is incredibly difficult to make work with chat hud

22:08

the new toggle_badged wrapper item is probably a better fit

22:08

but you have to make your progressive looping, because it takes away right click from the underlying item

// Bottles { "name": "Bottles", "type": "progressive", "loop": true, "allow_disabled": "false", "stages": [ { "img": "images/0026.png", "img_mods": "@disabled" }, { "img": "images/0070.png", "codes": "bottle" }, { "img": "images/0071.png" }, { "img": "images/0072.png" }, { "img": "images/0073.png" } ] }, // Sick Kid { "name": "Sick Kid", "type": "toggle_badged", "base_item": "bottle", "img": "images/sick.png", "codes": "sickkid" },

22:22

That should work better with chathud, Fouton.

For the SM pack, I changed the missiles, supers and powerbombs to the consumable ammo type. This should make it a bit easier to customize for the future, but will probably break your overrides as the new images are a different size

22:00

I gotta say I'm happy with the custom increment feature, it really cleaned up my images folder

22:03

My next plans for this is damage checks for bosses using lua, but that won't be for a while

How do I uninstall a package?? When I install a package, all it says is 'Reinstall'.

Gear Menu -> Packages -> Export Overrides -> Open Override Folder (this may take you to your Documents folder or to one that does in fact have overrides) -> EmoTracker -> packs -> Delete the pack you no longer want.

Got it. Thank you

Yep!

@Murnco Ive just updated the SMZ3 pack to include the code JR linked to make the codes function better with Chathud. Additionally, xray's time has ended, the rods get a little cozy, and Ganon & Mother Brain have found their way into the layout.

Image attachment

pattyOK

1

Did I help you with the Cozy Rods?

Did I waste my time putting it together when I coulda stolen your code? D:

dangit lmao

I changed the ammo to counters too with "increment": 5

23:05

I haven't "lifted" your sexy G4 yet.

I love the way canvas works

Those rods look really cozy.

RIP X Ray. Long live cozy rods!

for the emo tracker - the numbers are the amount of keys you have left?

13:12

Sorry - for OOT Randomizer - Items only

13:12

by JRJathome

The square? It's the amount of checks left in that dungeon

Only my keysanity tracker has a key counter. My other packs just track non-dungeon items. This is to make it easier to tell when you've collected all the items.

My ALTTP + SM randomizer map tracker is live. It's a first version so expect some issues, but please let me know if you see any or have any suggestions. (edited)

21:39

I coded the logic from scratch, following the randomizer code exactly, so many times something seems weird, but that's the way it is in logic, as ALTTP+SM is still being ironed out

For those curious about the WW Randomizer pack, I'd say it's about 3/4 done. I don't have tons of time to work on it, but I want to try to have it out during the weekend or early next week

1

pieMug

3

pattyOK

1

First look at a Hollow Knight rando pack I'm working on

Image attachment

Looks neat!

@Gilgatex do you think you could make an option to have both LTTP maps displaying at the same time on your combo tracker?

Not without releasing a completely new pack (although @EmoSaru has future plans for configurable options). What you can do is do a tracker_layout override, and replace this:

{ "title": "Light World", "content": { "type": "map", "maps": [ "lightworld" ] } }, { "title": "Dark World", "content": { "type": "map", "maps": [ "darkworld" ] } }

with this:

{ "title": "Zelda", "content": { "type": "map", "maps": [ "lightworld", "darkworld" ] } }

Huh. I guess my having 3 definitions for each location is silly. I’ve got one map with both worlds, one just light and one just dark. Coordinate defs for all 3.

yes definitely silly

14:50

very

but that did spark the idea that I could have a 4th tab with a combined map @Caracarn... I would be willing to do that

oh cool thanks for the tip

14:57

I had just been using two separate trackers before and just trying to keep the warp zones in mind

Pushing the changes to my repo now

14:58

there should be a 4th tab

nice, thanks!

and @Caracarn I hear you on the two separate trackers... that was the main reason I made my own pack. It wasn't ideal.

14:59

I really made it for me not others lol

14:59

so outside comments definitely welcome

tbh I don't even track the SM locations cause I don't feel like there is enough time

15:00

but it's nice to have the combined logic

I still do.. you have 3-4 seconds every room change

15:01

but then again my best time is like 5:15

I just don't like taking a hand off the controller while playing SM

15:01

easier to do in lttp

you need someone watching to use the EmoTracker twitch api

@Gilgatex did the update somehow break the logic for Death Mountain portal access?

16:39

seems that West Death Mountain is showing as always accessible now with no items

16:39

I swear it was working earlier

It probably did... I had some untested changes that I pushed with it

ah

16:44

I don't know much about programming so I couldn't really figure it out, lol

I'm looking right now but I have to leave in 5 mins

16:48

found it, and someone DMed me another issue, so I'll push them both right now

16:52

ok should be live, hopefully it didn't break anything else

@Hamsda Is there anywhere you list what all of your symbols mean? I am not able to figure out the 2 symbols next to each other directly left of the skulltula medallion.

Which one? The token icon or the skulltula icon?

the one left of the medal.

The magic jar is for tracking your magic upgrades. The one next to that is for tracking your wallets.

22:31

Underneath those are icons for stone of agony and the gerudo membership

oh the stone of agony! What about the one between the stone of agony and the medal?

Oh, I see. You must be referring to the vertical layout. So there's 2 skulltula icons. One has the tokens with a counter. The other toggles on/off their locations on your map.

oh ok! Thank you!

what JRJ said

having an update issue - other packs updated fine

Did you restart EmoTracker? Did you reboot? Is @Gilgatex ‘ site down?

Everything looks correct on my end. Both the manifest and my server show 1.0.6 (sometimes if there is a version mismatch it causes that problem). Try deleting Documents\EmoTracker\packs\smalttprando_v9_2_gilgatex.zip and reinstall

09:33

If you've edited the pack yourself without doing user overrides, then that also may be the issue

I tried rebooting and removing overrides

09:34

I'll reinstall now

09:36

that fixed it

Gilgatex - I found another small logic issue - the green brinstar waterway item checks if you have 1 e-tank, even if you have speed and gravity.

09:49

^should probably make my nicks match between discords

Can you screenshot it?

09:50

so I can see everything you have?

09:51

and if you could tell me the exact location name by holding the left mouse button over the location, I'm not sure what the green brinstar waterway is

09:53

I think I see the one you're talking about now

09:57

Logic requires power bombs, red doors, speed booster, and 1 energy tank, according to the code, in both casual and tournament. Looks like you've found a bug in the randomizer, not in my tracker.

09:57

I'll add gravity and speed as a sequence break though

cool, I'll report it in the other discord

I was going to see if I could just fix the code and issue a pull request, since it's open source

10:05

but still feel free to report it

I've submitted a pull request to Total. Up to him now.

Hah, looks like sloan submitted the exact same change as me thanks to your report

Am I doing this right? For example I got water med in forest temple, I had goron ruby at the start, shadow med in Deku Tree and sapphire in Dodongo's

10:48

Image attachment

10:49

Just making sure I'm filling it in correctly

Yep, that looks fine. The stones and medallions are grouped based on what they unlock. Forest unlocks a song, Forest, Water and Fire unlocks a song, Shadow and Spirit unlocks an item, and the three spiritual stones unlock a song and an item. My older pack had them all separate, but it was a pain to scroll through 9 items.

i much prefer the groupings. good job on that btw

Ah that makes total sense then. Thanks

Hollow Knight Randomizer Pack by @Clifford now live

cliffo2Heart

3

So, my pack won't update at all. I click it and nothing happens. Can anyone help? It's JRJathome's Oot Randomizer-Items only

First two things I always check first. Did you unzip the pack in the packs folder? If there's multiple packs with the same UID, the tracker will load the unzipped one first. If not, try deleting the zip in Documents/EmoTracker/Packs and try installing it again. If it's still having issues, then it may be an issue on my end. (edited)

thx, that seemed to have worked. I tried downloading your OotRandoItemTracker-Master, but I couldn't seem to get it to work. It was still in the folder and that was creating the problem

Master? Huh?

12:39

Oh, from my github.

Yeah

Yeah, Github doesn't have the zip set up the right way. I should just get rid of the extra files

ok, I'm just trying to find the tracker that has the fused Stones and such, as I can't seem to find that

12:41

wait, wtf, the tracker all the sudden has it now

12:42

I don't get it

12:43

Well, thanks for helping me

The 'images' layout and the 'old' layout don't have the fused stones. I really should fix those at some point. The current and keysanity layouts have the fused stones. Other than the zip files, the other files in my repository are old, so that could be why it didn't have the fused stones.

@jaysee I'm getting a download error when trying to install the Hollow Knight pack.

hmmm.. double checking repo file

13:15

try again

13:15

i wonder if the link is case sensitive

13:15

@JRJathome

Works now.

cool. thanks for letting me know

Whether links are case sensitive or not depends on your webserver, but in general I would assume “yes”

my SM+ALTTP randomizer is on v10 now, please redownload the package in package manager

In The SMALTTP Tracker from Gilgatex the Graveyard Ledge requirements seem wrong, i have Mirror, Hammer, Gloves but its still red (or not there at all without F11), also i had a sword and lamp early, but the Hyrule Castle + Sanc was still yellow (should be green if im not wrong)

07:36

and moon pearl in the first

Can you screenshot it?

07:41

nm I found the error, going to update now

take a look at kings tomb as well, just got boots and its still red (without titans mitts)

yes, there was an error in the "can enter NE dark world" function

07:43

this should fix it all

okay great thanks

Update pushed to server, thanks for the report!

Aginah's Cave shows that it's accessible right away, but I think you need bombs to get to the chest

ALttPR assumes you can get bombs.

01:29

http://alttp.mymm1.com/wiki/Rupee_Farming

01:29

ALttPR assumes you always have 10 Bombs and 9999 Rupees at all times.

It seems like it's handled inconsistently in EmoTracker, though. Each of the other chests that requires bombs shows as inaccessible until you toggle the bomb item on.

EmoTracker is the base application that supports Packs that users can develop.

02:45

Which pack are you referring to?

Oh, sorry. It's "Super Metroid and ALTTP Randomizer - v10"

Looks like it was an oversight. Looking at the code, Aginah's Cave doesn't include bombs as a requirement, but many other locations that have sections called "Bombable Wall" do have a bombs requirement.

Yeah, not a huge deal, but thought I'd mention it. I only made that dumb mistake once.

03:00

The dumb mistake of running all the way out there without bombs, I mean!

The above-linked page can help find bombs.

@jcaraker yes, each pack has a different author. I think I'm the only one that includes bomb logic in my pack (the game itself does not, with the exception of Hyrule Castle escape). Thanks for pointing Aginah's cave out, I'll add it to the next release as it's not a critical oversight.

04:19

I prefer to have the bomb logic in there personally, so that's why I put in the pack. I've actually heard of people doing user-overrides to remove it because they want it automatically checked.

04:19

In my pack

@Gilgatex Thanks for all your work on the SM/ALTTP package. I don't know how I could live without it.

1

Just pushed a pretty big update for my OoT packs that is better suited to work with TestRunners fork. Enjoy

Aw yis. Updated skulltulas!

I just pushed an update for @Darkened5ky 's Wind Waker tracker to add the new categories and logic changes in version 1.2.0 which got released this morning

1

@Gilgatex I found a couple things that need to be fixed. In Pink Brinstar, if you have regular bombs but not power bombs, it has charge beam inaccessible. It also says that you CAN get to the left side power bomb spot with regular bombs, when you need power bombs to get there

22:22

(also the left side power bomb spot says it is a super missile spot instead)

22:23

and the other thing is minor, but plasma beam room shows as accessible before killing draygon

@Caracarn Thanks, I will look into them and make sure I didn't mess up copying the logic from the rom hack

05:56

If it's something that you can get, but it's not in logic either because of a bug or intentionally, I'll set it as a sequence break

@Caracarn I'm fixing both. First one was my bug. Second one logic only requires that you can beat draygon, but in keeping consistent with what I did with kraid and phantoon I'll change it (edited)

06:11

looks like space jump also requires draygon (obviously) so I updated that too (edited)

Ok, the ALTTP+SM update has been pushed with several bugfixes and access rule updates

06:23

1.1.2 ----- Fixed access rules for death mountain Fixed charge beam access rules (can use normal bombs and screw attack in addition to power bombs) Bomb required to be marked for desert cave Draygon required to be marked for Space Jump and Plasma Beam locations

thanks, I'll let you know if I catch anything else

Oracle Of Seasons Pack by @Herreteman is now live!

Oh dear.

23:21

That sounds like a hell of a time, actually. I'll have to look into that.

I just posted a map tracker for the Jill scenario of Resident Evil Remaster randomizer. Only set up for normal mode now, but hard mode will be added soon. Chris scenario will be worked on soon (tm)

all the packs Pog

Pog

hail our benevolent overlord

@Gilgatex I found a minor bug with waterfall fariy not making a moon pearl check for sequence break on tracker it was saying i could access the chest with fake flipper + boots and no pearl

You haven't tried waterwalking?

09:58

Boots allow waterwalking with, say, the pit under a bush leading to a fairy to the east of Graveyard, used in flipperless Houlihan setup

09:59

You can then waterwalk into Waterfall Fairy.

Yeah boots + fake flipper is a NMG sequence break. (edited)

As long as the location isn't showing green, there shouldn't be any problem... (I suppose unless you have minor glitch locations showing green)

They don't

ahh i wasent aware of water walking still learning some of the NMG sequence breaks

Everyone's gotta learn somehow!

@trucker Better to report and be wrong than to not report and be wrong

Net gain: knowledge

11:18

If you think something's wrong, bring it up. Someone will learn something they weren't aware of in the process.

I'm probably gonna feel like a real dummy when someone answers this, but what is the new icon on the Hamsda tracker...?

Bridge repair.

14:14

It's supposed to be the Gerudo icon.

14:14

You get it when you free the Carpenters.

14:15

It's just a little obscure. Bridge repair subs in as in-logic access to Valley West and Fortress without Longshot/Epona, in the event you arrived with Hookshot Extension.

Ah, for if you do reverse Wasteland? Ok. Lol, not like I can actually do that yet, but good to know. Thanks!

Reverse Wasteland doesn't quite get you past the lowered gate, does it? I'm fairly sure it's just for putting the region fully into logic (and enabling frontways Wasteland travel, as the member card is not the trigger for opening the gate, the carpenter rescue is)

14:50

Carpenter rescue will let you run around unimpeded now that Gerudo Member Card can be shuffled.

yeah if you have a look at the readme for TRs branch or the release for v2.0.3.0 of my pack: gerudo card is literally only for GTG access, everything else in gerudo fortress is based on you having rescued the carpenters, which that icon represents

@Gilgatex the smz3 package has a logic mistake with bombs and morph it doesnt put dm into logic

@Hamsda Hope this isn't out of line; found a logic hiccup using the OoT Map tracker today. It's acceptable in Accessible to use Mido skip to access Forest, but the tracker shows it hard-locked, not even as a sequence break, to access FT without Saria or Minuet. (edited)

yeah i noticed that myself during the accessible weekly

03:35

and no, I appreciate if you guys tell me about flaws in the pack

Yup, it was during the weekly for me, too

@Xel can you be more specific?

the lightworld Death mountain wont show you accessible locations if you have morph ball and oh you know what i realized its because i ddint manually give my self missles/supers/power bombs

@Gilgatex on the V10 tracker, "name": "Power Bomb (red Brinstar spike room)", "access_rules": [ "[tournament],super", "[casual],$canPowerBomb,ice", "[casual],$canPowerBomb,super", can be accessed with DM portal and ice beam (edited)

16:39

SMALttP_-_sm-normal_alttp-no-glitches-v10_normal-open_swords-randomized_morph-randomized_ganon_combo.txt

23.14 KB

Yes, that is a child of Red Brinstar, which has the following access:

"name": "Red Brinstar", "color": "#601820", "access_rules": [ "$canBombWalls,super,morph", "speed,super,morph", "$canAccessNorfairPortal,ice", "$canAccessNorfairPortal,hijump", "[tournament],$canAccessNorfairPortal,$canSpringJump", "[tournament],$canAccessNorfairPortal,$canFlySM", "[casual],$canAccessNorfairPortal,space" ],

16:50

Are you saying you couldn't select it?

16:51

Because when I select warp whistle, ice beam, and supers, it lights up green

16:51

(@crabopolis)

it's yellow with lamp and glove

17:02

did you turn on ice beam

17:03

vaguely certain that jump is a royal pain in the queen's arse without ice beam

17:03

i.e. damn near impossible

yes, I double checked my tracker when I got blocked in my seed. everything was checked (ice, space, lamp, glove)

new emotracker instance go

17:04

Oh jeez, this actually gives me a suggestion idea.

17:07

so, ice, space jump, and DM access

17:08

Huh.

17:08

Call me a crazy person, but nothing's lighting up at all on the SM map when I turn on only Ice, Space Jump, Lamp, and Glove.

hmm, you're right. and the one item by the norfair portal doesn't light up with lamp and glove

The first of three items on the Hi-Jump Boots route should activate quite literally with no prerequisite other than Death Mountain access... and be Out of Logic with just the Glove.

okay, it went green when I remembered to click supers

17:11

and the spike room location did too

Oh that's a Missile door okay

17:11

Yeah okay now we're getting somewhere.

now I need to recreate the bug

That's a Missile door to HJB and a Super Missile door in the way of Alpha Power Bomb.

17:12

Thaaaat was the missing link.

can't reproduce, probably user error on my part

17:17

wait, got it

17:18

Image attachment

hmm yellow means it is in tournament logic but not casual

17:19

so that's probably it

...why would that be out of Normal/Casual logic?

because it's a pain in the butt?

It's not, it did suck though

It's... just Ice Beaming the Rippers, isn't it?

17:20

Where's the hard part of it?

17:20

The very last part of the climb?

you'd have to take that up with Total

Wouldn't Space Jump nullify that?

17:20

I'll go look at the logic.

so @crabopolis I take it if you switch to hard mode it's green?

Yes

oof

yeah it seems it's in casual logic, so it must be my code

extreme edge case

norfair plus ice

if I'm reading this right, access to Alpha Power Bombs is in Tournament logic with just Super Missiles

17:23

https://github.com/tewtal/alttp_sm_combo_randomizer/blob/master/app/Region/SuperMetroid/Brinstar/Red.php

tewtal/alttp_sm_combo_randomizer

alttp_sm_combo_randomizer - ALttP VT Randomizer and API - Super Metroid & ALTTP Combo Version

plus can_access for the region

wouldn't have even noticed except morph was mitts locked and mitts were in terminator

er... can_enter

oh, the whole region's entry requirement from the Norfair side is Ice Springball Hi-Jump || flight

17:24

k

17:24

and casual is just ice/hjb/space to enter from norfair

oh there it is, it's not in casual logic because it requires power bombs

so Alpha Power Bombs in Casual comes up to Power Bombs or Ice + Super Missile

17:25

$this->locations["Power Bomb (red Brinstar spike room)"]->setRequirements(function($location, $items) { return ($items->canUsePowerBombs() || $items->has('Ice')) && $items->has('Super'); });

17:26

same item in tournament cuts Power Bombs and Ice from the equation, covered under access via Norfair and therefore DM

yeah looks like I copied that correctly

17:26

so yes you can get it, but no, it is not in normal logic

17:27

oh wait, nm

access to the Alpha Power Bomb itself does not require power bombs (but you can use them from the top side to get in from Crateria)

bombs or ice... I did bombs and ice

which is odd, because that region has power bomb access from crateria covered already

changing it to

"access_rules": [ "[tournament],super", "[casual],$canPowerBomb,super", "[casual],ice,super", ],

17:28

that look right?

wait, no it doesn't.

17:28

the region doesn't have power bombs defined to access it in casual logic, disregard me

17:28

it must be explicitly defining power bombs to allow the upper entry route

17:29

let me double check the doors

17:29

alpha pb is super locked

17:29

ice from below, pbs from above

17:29

damn near naked in tournament apparently

17:30

so yeah, if your containing region access is defined correctly i think that should cover it

thanks for the hard work in making a very fun game accessible

(powerbombs or ice) and super missiles

17:32

can confirm that it turns green when power bombs are turned on because it can be accessed from above

yeah tested it and that seemed to fix it

17:33

@crabopolis thanks for bringing that to my attention

1

the oot tracker keeps telling me I can get the skulltula in the horseback archery range before getting the gerudo card or freeing any carpenters. It's a green dot, too, so no glitches supposedly involved in the logic. Am I missing something here, or is there some other way up there I don't know about? Because the vision on the guard blocking the path is OP :\

19:08

https://imgur.com/a/pgEBAyC

Yeah, I already poked @Hamsda about that one. It'll be updated, don't worry. Logic says you need free-roaming access to the Gerudo Fortress, iirc.

19:09

(I'll check that right now, actually.)

ok, thanks. was super confused there

19:09

I tried hovering past several times and got nowhere

set_rule(world.get_location('GS Gerudo Fortress Archery Range'), lambda state: state.has('Progressive Hookshot') and state.has('Carpenter Rescue') and state.is_adult() and state.nighttime())

19:10

yeah, that should be inaccessible, I informed Hamsda about it earlier and it'll be in the next update to the pack

19:10

no worries, it got me too

you can glitchlessly get to it, but yea not in logic

(I don't think you ever did discuss the glitchless entry to that by the way)

19:10

(or if you did I missed it)

how?

might pop that back over to the OoTR discord

k

19:11

think i'll just ignore it for now if it's not in logic

Can't you just knock out a couple guards and get past?

@Sherpa The white-pants Gerudo guards are completely immune to Link's entire inventory... even his sword, even though you can get up quite literally right behind the one offending Gerudo guard that stops your progression up the hill.

05:54

(Walking past her is a no-go.)

Ah, didn't know

@Gilgatex Apparently Dark World access through Maridia portal is not working on Hard logic, only on normal. I just encountered this in a race (edited)

@Caracarn did you happen to take a screenshot of what items you had so I can test it?

07:03

@Caracarn When I check moon pearl, flippers, gravity, morph, and titan, it shows accessible for both, so I'm going to need more info

07:03

it might be a logic error on the rom hack itself

07:04

sorry, I read your comment in the reverse

Ok, I found a typo which caused the issue and I'm going to push an update, so thank for the report.

07:21

I also found a weird thing in the game logic where if you have pearl, speed, supers, morph, and power bombs, you can access the dark world portal in easy but not in hard. you additionally need missiles for hard, but the odds of not having missiles by that point are pretty much nonexistent.

yeah I actually didn't have any glove or hammer but I did have flippers pearl and hookshot

09:06

so maridia portal or agahnim was my only dark world access at that point

which pack should I use for SMALttP. I heard the gilgatex one is outdated, is the correct?

11:20

that*

Gilgatex has been very active on this discord though, trying to fix any logic errors in his pack.

11:27

So I wouldn't think his pack is outdated.

oh right on, thats good to know. I would much prefer to use his tracker considering it has map whereas the other one does not

My pack is not outdated. It has current v10 logic

12:50

Where did you hear it was outdated?

Could be an issue from when you changed your pack's uid. Maybe someone didn't get the update, so they're still using the v9.2 pack not realizing there is a newer version available.

@Hamsda A few logic hiccups I found while playing my first keysanity seed... (May or not actually be errors, I might just be dumb.) °The first check in Fire Temple showing accessible and in-logic without Hookshot, Hovers, or Bolero °Spirit Temple lower child checks without Slingshot or Boomerang (if there's another way to trigger that switch, I couldn't find it...) °Tektite grotto HP showing as in-logic to Child after getting Iron Boots

spirit temple is done with bombchus, the tektite grotto thing is an issue with no way of differentiating between child/adult i believe

06:36

access to fire temple should be gated behind one of the items you mentioned so that's probably a bug

Oh, cool! Another very limited use for bombchus! pattyCheer

pattyCheer

mentioned here under notable logic changes https://github.com/TestRunnerSRL/OoT-Randomizer/tree/Dev

Odd, I was playing a Bombchus Not In Logic seed. Didn't know there were still places that can require them in logic when that's turned off (besides Spirit Trial, since that's the only solution for that puzzle)

i do think that bombchus are not used at all in logic if you disable them via the option

06:44

so you most likely didn't pick up boomerang/slingshot in an available location or child spirit was not required (edited)

06:45

talking strictly about testrunner's code, not sure how hamsda implemented it.

The tracker was showing them as available checks; I probably had 'chus at the time but didn't know to use them.

@Gilgatex yeah, I don't remember who said it to me. It wasn't anyone in the discord. But it was about an older version

http://puu.sh/BhNtx/42f0607cfe.jpg why isnt the hover boots chest listed?

Embedded image

That would be the Deadhand chest.

ah feel like it would be moore destict if it was named the hover boots chest

Is this to track if you've freed the carpenters?

Image attachment

Yes.

02:18

It's the symbol seen on every block in the game, as well as Gerudo signposts and the Mirror Shield, but only in the releases where the crescent and star were censored because MUH RELIGIONS, or something like that.

ah okay, thanks

can you still free them if you get the membership card?

The card has exactly one function.

02:57

It lets you into the Gerudo Training Grounds.

it also enables the arrow game, and disables going to prison

Wrong in both counts.

really? wow

Delete the Member Card with RBA and you will explicitly be denied access to Gerudo Training Grounds.

02:58

This is vanilla behavior.

dang that's really fascinating. this games full of neat quirks. thanks.

Rescuing the four carpenters is what enables free access to the fortress. It just so happens you normally get the card at the exact same tine.

02:59

OoT doesn't exactly do things in a sensible way.

I wonder too... I didn't get anything other than the Gerudo's card for freeing them. In the map and item tracker I'm using, it says there's a chest I get for freeing the carpenters, but I didn't get one... Maybe it's somewhere in the fortress

there's a chest on the roof of the fortress

Oh! I already got that one

@Shiuster The chest is for a randomized item that replaces the Gerudo Membership Card should you choose to shuffle it at seed creation.

Oh thank you! That makes alot of sense

Because it can be selected as a valid item pool location, it is represented in the tracker as merely another item to pick up.

10:54

In the Keysanity variant, each carpenter also has an item pool location as the Gerudo Fortress keys can appear anywhere just like any other key.

I've noticed that hamsda's tracker mentions 'logic' or 'none' under a bombchu, and some settings for lens of truth, and now you're also mentioning shuffling the membership card (or not); but I don't see settings for this in my randomizer

11:06

it's possible i'm just completely blind, but I don't understand what those features are for, or how i'd change them

Image attachment

Those options are from Testrunner's fork, which you can find here. https://github.com/TestRunnerSRL/OoT-Randomizer/tree/Dev

TestRunnerSRL/OoT-Randomizer

OoT-Randomizer - A randomizer for Ocarina of Time.

...is this literally just a straight upgrade to the randomizer with no excuse not to use it..

Yes.

11:11

It recently got a pull into the main repo. (edited)

why doesn't the randomizer discord encourage this lol

We do.

Hey really do lol

11:11

They*

the video guide and stuff makes no mention of it, this is really cool, thanks guys

yea, sadly theres currently plans to remove the ability to remove maps and compasses and remove the option for bombchu logic with no way to turn it off. >_>

But I can’t use bombchus well

why is that sadly

because both options are just that, great options.

oh sorry i misread

11:13

i somehow didn't read 'remove the ability to' and just went 'currently plants to remove maps and compasses' and was like wh

11:13

wouldn't you WNAT more options lol

lol

11:13

anyways this is off-topic >_>

not really, it's pack support for hamsda's pack

It's explanations for why Hamsda's packages are what they are. Or, well, it was.

it started going off the topic of packs, thats what i meant :P

It’s definitely drifting off topic. While my day job has given me many thoughts on the actual effects of more options on player communities, this is not the right place to discuss game design.

When in mixed company, it is impolite to discuss religion, politics, or game design.

4

Or coding styles for that matter

corLUL

1

@Gilgatex pretty sure its just a logic error but still short a glove with LN being my mire access

Image attachment

00:13

Image attachment

This is going to bite, but there was actually an actual logic error here

00:15

I don't know if we fixed it or not. Should ask the SMxALttP discord.

@Natalie There's a pull request in by Smol to fix it but it's not live in v10.

Nothing's live in v10 right now.

00:30

But at least it's sitting there waiting.

Wut? The generator site is on v10.

And it apparently isn't working.

Thanks for chiming in so I don't have to check it @Natalie :) (edited)

I just remembered it had actually come up.

The smz3 map tracker isn’t showing the gauntlet items for some reason, even though I have space jump, morph ball and power bombs, so they should be in logic

Isn't Speed Booster required for those, too?

I thought that with space jump, it shouldn’t be

21:49

Even if it’s not in logic for normal, it should still be listed as a sequence break

21:51

Ok, it looks like at least 10 powerbombs are required, because they show up when I add more

You are expected to have a max available to leave as well.

You gotta be able to get in and out

22:15

whether you come out the front side or the back side

Yes, logic requires 10 power bombs. I suppose I can make that requirement by itself a sequence break

@Darkened5ky For the wind waker tracker, the platform chest for eastern fairy island says you need to destroy the cannons in the hint but it didn't appear right away, then it appeared after killing the enemies there. just a minor thing but i thought i'd say something. could be something someone needs in a one in a million seed but isn't showing because they don't have boomerang or bombs

@Gilgatex someone using the smalttp tracker noted that pod appears to not have pearl in its logic if accessed through aga1 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/448311066259226644/484178060204179466/Screenshot_16.png

Embedded image

@Gilgatex I noticed a few errors in your smz3 tracker, mostly related to sequence breaks and items being "visible" but not collectible

20:43

First, it doesn't take into account being able to check the gauntlet from the back

20:43

Second, Ether tablet was not shown as checkable, even though I had West DM access and book

20:44

Third, Bombos tablet was shown as checkable, even though I did not yet have south dw access (i had hammer, moon pearl and mirror, but not glove or the ability to do aga 1)

20:44

Finally, it didn't show bat as a possible sequence break with cane and mushroom

@RedGyarados2010 Thanks for listing those, I will definitely look into them

22:45

@Espeon That's weird about POD but that might be a randomizer bug. I'll look into it and thanks for the detailed screenshot

@Espeon Not a randomizer bug. It will be fixed in the next release.

1

@RedGyarados2010 Added all your points, thanks for reporting to both of you!

@Mikus64 thanks for letting me know, I'll get that fixed

@Gilgatex found a two things on the tracker Crateria Super missile location Not sequence breakable (shows up that way with varia morph and PB) but visibly checkable without speed booster on normal or hard logic due to speed booster blocks at top of shaft Golden Torizo Missile location Is visibly checkable with back door GT access (right now it shows red without space jump)

@trucker More data on which locations can be seen but not acquired in SM would be super helpful for the many map trackers out there.

14:16

Many of us would appreciate the help. :D (Some of us aren't as skilled to be able to find these locations, like myself.)

I defiantly will put it here as i find more just not that many situations come up just for the different ways of getting around in SM

I exported tracker layout override. But how do I apply this override to the tracker next time I open it. When I restarted the program I couldn't see any option about applying the override. How can I do it? I don't want to check everything I collected every time I reopen the program. (I am using Hamsda's map and item tracker)

22:21

Oot Randomizer

EmoTracker checks for the override first and loads it. If it doesn't find an override in the correct folder, then it loads the default file instead.

Also, layout override is NOT save/load (edited)

22:44

It has nothing to do with which items you've collected or which locations you've cleared

22:45

unless you intended to actually customize the layout of the tracker, I recommend using the Clear Overrides command

JRJathome It doesnt do that.

Exporting an override is not the save/load tracker state method for EmoTracker. It does not have that feature yet.

11:46

To save the state of collected items in the tracker, simply do not close it and either sleep or hibernate your PC instead.

:/

What Natalie and Emo said. The layout override is for customizing what the tracker looks like. It's not a save/load feature. The save/load feature is coming Soon ™ in the next update , but Emo doesn't have a release date yet.

hey @EmoSaru i think i ran into a logic bug with the LTTPR open pack. I had the cane of somaria and the turtle rock pendant, but no fire rod. Therefore I could only access the front chest of TR. However, the tracker still said I could access mimic cave. Mimic cave would have required the fire rod in order to access

i have a screenshot of my setup if you want it

09:03

technically i recreated the setup after i finished the seed, but close enough

A good key layout would have probably let you that far in. (edited)

oh, good call. i guess thats right - i've seen matches were fire rod on laser bridge before

Yeah. Small keys in the first chest and the chain chomp chest should let you reach Mimic Cave, I think.

Was it yellow, or green? If it was yellow, no bug.

it's green

That's a bug. It IS potentially accessible, but should be yellow. I'll release an update sometime in the next few days.

Thanks @EmoSaru. I'm happy to help!

16:52

even if its technically possible and not a sequence break, it confused me that it was green

Yeah, for dungeons, the convention is that "might be able to" is flagged as yellow

16:58

So Mimic Cave should follow suit in this case

1

yay!

i reported a logic bug with the last tracker i used and the guy responded on github with "how did you even end up with these items? thats impossible" and closed the bug. so yeah, you rock! (edited)

@SauceRelic Hey I'm using your tracker for SM Rando and it is telling me I need high jump for wave beam check and speed boost check. I have the other requirements (grav, varia so on) and I also have space jump but it still isnt showing up and im playing casual (edited)

Ice Beam? That's left of Business Center and Speed-locked no matter which route you take, at least in casual logic.

I meant wave beam

Screenshots of the offending item list versus map location may help.

k

Actually, I can get a gif of the offending situation right now

18:57

https://puu.sh/BpRL5.gif

Embedded image

18:58

Space Jump should be a legitimate substitute for Hi-Jump in all non-aquatic situations. I wonder if this is an actual logic issue, but I'm not about to chase that down on my end. (edited)

oh thanks

19:01

also, no matter what i have the check in spike room of death never shows up as checkable

19:01

at least on the single maps

19:01

it does show up on full maps

For the original problem, hijump is required by logic for wave beam on casual difficulty. I did think that kind of odd myself when i was putting it in but wanted to get all the locations in with logic requirements before tackling sequence breaks, and I ended up forgetting about it

19:28

You'll have to elaborate what the spike room check is as it's probably a typo in my map_location

19:29

Easiest way would be to tell me what the location is called on the full map

its in the wrecked ship

19:30

if you look at the save room its the dot to the upper right

19:30

just to the upper right

19:31

sorry

Alright i found it

wrecked ship e-tank

19:32

on the single map wreckedd ship missle is called wrecked ship e-tank

I guess i put the e-tank in the missile location thats right above it since its showing up there

so the hjb requirement in logic for wave beam. does that also apply to speed boost too?

Yeah it does

so weird

For casual logic

19:34

Casual requires almost no advanced tech, not even walljumping

19:34

But its weird it wouldn't take space

So Space Jump is "advanced tech"?

19:34

I didn't make it

19:34

pieShrug

19:36

Anyways I'll fix that WS etank now and maybe start working on logical sequence breaks in the next week or so

Alright should be fixed, also threw in those fancy flags all the other packs have

@EmoSaru Keysanity tracker pack shows Kholstare as beatable (without glitches) without having the big key. Despite what we always do, it logically needs BK. I think the fix is to change line 311 in locations.json to read: "access_rules": [ "hammer,bombos,[somaria],[ip_bigkey]", "hammer,firerod,[somaria],[ip_bigkey]", "hammer,bombos,[ip_smallkey:1],[ip_bigkey]", "hammer,firerod,[ip_smallkey:1],[ip_bigkey]" ],

I’ll look into it and think about it, but that was actually a conscious choice because with a modicum of experience it would be misleading to anybody racing.

11:49

Ice palace is straight up the worst dungeon to model in keysanity

11:50

Because nobody does it logically

11:50

Ever

corLUL

1

11:50

lol

~~At least it's not OoT Spirit Temple~~

11:51

i'm definitely forgetting what the catch here is though (edited)

That makes a certain amount of sense.

11:53

We did have a guy in the main rando discord today who was asking how to beat Kholdstare without the BK or glitches, which is how I noticed this.

11:54

lmk which was you decide to go on that. I'm happy to tell future people "That's an intentional part of the tracker; keysanity's an advanced mode"

Yeah, it’s a really weird thing

11:56

No other dungeon gets broken as badly, so routinely

Do we report issues with individual packs here or do I have to go elsewhere?

If you've got an issue with an individual pack, you should definitely bring it up here, and probably should ping the creator if you know you have the issue pinned down (edited)

18:44

you can also ping them for a fair chance at getting direct support from them

@Hamsda your Keysanity map and item tracker is showing that there's nothing left for me to do in closed forest/closed door tokensanity even tough I've beaten Gohma and can leave the forest.

investigates

18:47

It should open up the moment you enable Kokiri Sword and Slingshot.

Not sure what other details you need so just let me know if you need any more info.

18:48

They're both unlocked on item tracker.

https://puu.sh/BqWAz.png

Embedded image

18:49

18:50

Is this not what you see the moment you enable both the Kokiri Sword and the Slingshot?

Image attachment

18:53

https://puu.sh/BqWIA.png

Embedded image

18:53

Mimicing your tracked items produces this.

18:56

The only thing I can think of to cause this is a bad override of some kind.

I don't think I ever set any overrides but I cleared them just in case and the tracker still shows me as unable to get anything outside the forest.

did you refresh/restart the tracker when you cleared the overrides?

Did now, still nothing.

Just curious - @Natalie , did you verify that you have the latest version of that pack? Just asking because I see updates available

Yeah, I double-checked, Hamsda's isn't reporting an update

19:34

only override I have is broadcast layout

kk, just checking

hmm i'll double check tomorrow, I made a tiny change to open forest

i think im having an issue with my package. i have it set to open forest open door, but i cleared deku tree and some other random things, and it doesnt say i can do anything else

its making it really hard to play right now

if its the Hamsda package, it was just brought up. you'll just have to cope.

ah gotcha

yeah I might've fudged something, will fix soon ™

Note to self: don't update just yet... Keep the old and functional release.

I was having this issue too when I updated the hamsda tracker. I just went to the github and downloaded the previous version (2.0.3.1) and put that in my emotracker folder to go back to a working version (edited)

01:11

It didn't say in emotracker that there was an update if you have 2.03.1, but it will update you to 2.0.3.2 if you reinstall it

That sounds like a version issue in the repository, that may have been due to an override I had in place for @Hamsda ‘s packs with the new version (edited)

pushed a fix to the open forest issue, forgot an item_count for my logic location as I usually do...

If we wanted to create our own naming scheme & icons, what would be the best place to start? Overrides of a tracker that's already built?

hey @EmoSaru i've seen some streamers using what appears to be emotracker LTTP open mode package in item only mode, but the icons are in a different layout. is that a different package? or is there a way to adjust the icons?

You're probably looking for details on the Broadcast View and its overrides. You'll need to, well... not be afraid of JSON. If you're looking for broadcast view and broadcast overrides, that's #customization-support

k. i dont actually want to do it myself, i just wanted more information about how it was happening. thanks @Natalie

@FayteFireix yes, that would be my advice. Icons can be done strictly through the override folder. I will warn you that if you are changing the codes for items in map/logic enabled pack, you’re approaching making a whole new pack.

The game plan down the road is to make a new pack or at least one that labels the way my mind does, but I thought I would start off small and manipulate one that exists to get familiar

I think that’s definitely a good way to start.

@Hamsda Minor logic flaw in the Keysanity tracker - GS100 in Spirit Temple shows as accessible without any keys.

in LTTP keysanity, arrgus shows as accessible with 0 Swamp palace keys & swamp palace access

Image attachment

Can you tell who's the pack author? I don't remember if there's more than one keysanity pack

emusaru

06:27

theres only 2 trackers with mapping

I'll take a look, thanks

kholdstare has the same bug, where he shows as beatable with dungeon access

Image attachment

10:14

I only discovered these because the randomizer actually put me in those situations chrisLUL

chrisLUL

im stuck on the bird nest thing where you supposed to get a key but i got a piece of heart i can't open the door

10:20

in wind waker

10:20

;)

10:20

:,)*

Just a reminder - for help with games, go to the game’s Discord. Definitely report tracker logic bugs here though.

yeah i thought i waas on the gamess discord

10:22

was*

10:22

im kind of an idiot sometimes

Also @Battle00333 my packs logic does not treat ice palace bomb jump as a sequence break, because it’s basically ubiquitous and is distracting

10:23

So that ice palace result is actually correct, or at least consistent

well if it treats bombjumps as in logic, then yea its correct

It’s only that one, actually

10:24

No others

10:24

Ice palace with and without knowing that jump are basically two different dungeons

mhm, without the bombjump (or red cane) you have to loop around a second time, which is a nightmare (edited)

It’s really just that in keysanity it gets logically insane due to the number of pot keys that also involve chest keys

10:26

It’s absolutely possible to steal keys without even realizing it

10:26

So I basically sidestep the issue

Desert has a similar "bug" where chests shows as yellow even without big key (edited)

10:28

but im pty sure thats cus the bigchest is treated as a regular chest, and it only shows yellow because of the pedestal item

10:29

not neccessarily a bug, its just wierd

I'll have to check on that one

10:52

I don't think your assumption is correct

I looked into it some more, and it shows up white when you have both bigkey & boots. (in addition to other required items)

@Hamsda i had a suggestion for your OoT Package (by the way. thx for the great work and support drakelHype

drakelHype

) Since a few days is it possible to do a shop sanity in the randomizer. On the Settings lane at the bottom should be a button with "Shop Vnla" and "Shop Sany" With Shop Sany activated should be a green dot on the map for each shop with 4 Chest and 4 items to put it in for a preview (like the stone of agony feature) Like this

Image attachment

Question for OoT players. I'm going to be revamping my items only packs to make use of changes coming in the next version of EmoTracker. One thing on the fence is the layout with the dungeon images. I've had people tell me they don't care for it, and to be honest, I don't really care for how it turned out either. Is there anyone who uses it and would like to see support for it continued? Or would it be fine for me to remove it from the package manager and drop support for it?

23:02

For those that don't know, this is the one I'm considering removing.

Image attachment

I think it was a neat idea, but yea, I agree with your assessment of it.

the idea of the dungeon images was okay, but i prefer a more compact tracker, so i'd never use them

I've always loved the concept, but it loses its flair when I have to shrink it to fit on my screens

@Drakel that is in the works exactly as you described

14:49

@LostThePirate thanks for letting me know, will fix

So I just opened the new Keysanity map tracker and to the right of the Mushroom there is a small key icon that lights up Desert Small Key for some reason. I don't understand why this would be intended

hmm, possible something snuck through, let me check it

Hello, LTTP pack will be compatible with new v30 version incoming ? or you may have to modify the logic in the tracker ?

There are no significant logic changes that I'm aware of, but the pack will be updated as necessary. Inverted support will likely come a bit later, as it's still in active developement.

15:11

and @ozipone I see it

15:11

will fix shortly

1

cool ! you ll setup inverted logic in emotracker ! ❤

Pack update pushed for the keysanity map tracker

was a bug ?

just a testing thing that snuck out

15:19

it didn't actually impact anything, was just the dp small key showing up twice

in tracker, outside dungeons, you have one chest for one chest on tracker for dungeon you have the number of items represented by chest

15:20

can active a mod to check the number of chest in dungeon ? (edited)

15:21

i know it not really useful for good speedrunners but something which can help when you start

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question, but the LTTP packs always show the item count for every location.

15:22

IT just so happens that outside of dungeons, all chests can contain items.

15:22

That's not an option I'm likely to add support for, but thank you for reporting it.

yes it's that . Ok thanks.

Ocarina of Time tracker packages report item checks in dungeons on an individual location basis. LttP trackers typically lump together all non-dungeon-item checks in dungeons as a count of items.

15:24

It's a sort of different mindset, in fairness.

the games work differently in that regard, but it's also about the fact that LTTPR is a racing culture at this point, while that's early on OOTR

Standard map tracker works both for Open or Standard type ? (edited)

yes, they have the same logic

ok thx

@Hamsda nice work, thx for the shop update. Small improvement. The Keys. I can't put in any key in the preview section

00:51

and nice to have, map and compass

Are you using the Keysanity layout?

00:56

Because it's working fine for me.

i can't see the key icon in the preview box on the right site

Image attachment

Ooooh, ok, my mistake. Hmm, yeah, that might come in handy.

01:09

I usually just keep notes, though, since there are so many non-specific locations.

oh yeah, I should update that

07:56

I think bonzai also showed me a picture of a 999 wallet in that mode?

shops added a 999 wallet, yea. the max price for any item is 300, though

good to know, haven't been keeping up as much lately

Whenever I try to install a package, nothing happens, am I doing something wrong?

Which package?

Any of them, I've tried all the available ones for OOT and some for other games

when you say nothing happens, I'm assuming you mean it doesn't change to say "installed"

Yeah

does the progress bar fill up, and then reset?

Exactly

okay, a couple of things

21:33

1) restart the tracker to make sure there's not some unknown bug (I'm not aware of any)

21:33

2) check your virus scanner

21:34

if you have a virus scanner installed that's not the built in microsoft one

21:34

they can sometimes be overzealous about protecting your Documents folder

21:34

Adding an exclusion for Documents/EmoTracker may fix your problem

Alright I'll try that, thanks!

np, please report back with any progress after all of that

I'll tell you if it works

21:37

I tried both of those things and it still isn't working

Hmm

21:40

What version of Windows are you on?

Windows 10

kk

21:41

And if you look at the Documents/EmoTracker folder

21:41

is that anything in there?

Just an empty folder that's called packs (edited)

Hmm, ok

21:43

I wonder if it's a permissions issue

21:43

Can you try running EmoTracker as administrator?

21:43

You'll need to right click on it in the start menu

I'll try that

21:44

Nope, still no luck

21:44

Very interesting

21:44

Just to double check, you are running EmoTracker 2.1.0.1

21:45

it should say that in the title bar

It just says EmoTracker, no numbers after it

okay, that's a neat bug, it only displays the version after loading a pack

21:46

anyway

21:46

hmm

I just downloaded it from the website so I assume it's 2.1.0.1

have you relocated your user folder or documents folder in some way?

No

Can you check to make sure that you have write permissions on that folder?

How would I check that?

Right click on the Documents/EmoTracker folder, choose Properties, and then check under Security

21:48

click on your username and make sure it has permissions

Yeah, it has full permissions

In the same properties box, if the folder is read only, try making it writable

I made the folder writable, restarted the tracker, and it still isn't working.

Very strange

21:52

Okay, give me a minute

I think I found the issue. For some reason, the folder won't stay writable and it keeps going back to read-only when I change it

That may or may not be the issue

21:56

If your documents folder is being synced with OneDrive

21:56

I'm going to DM you something to try, if that's okay

I'm alright with that, though if it's about OneDrive, I don't have that set up

interesting okay

This has been resolved, and I've added an entry to #faq with the solution.

Thank you @Hamsda for adding Dungeon Skulltula labels back in on the pinned box :) Much appreciated!

you're welcome I realized pretty quickly myself that just using the GSXX doesn't work well when I played a skullsanity

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/445948207638511619/490716782412431370/what.png

Embedded image

20:00

@Gilgatex someone reported this. Speed at wrecked ship is marked as yellow like you can sequence break it

for the official LTTP rando standard tracker, is there a way to mark hearts or rupees in the pinned items? like, if theres 300 rupees in the library and i want to remember to come back for it later

no, in general those are considered "trash" items, because there's either a bunch more or them or they can be farmed

i mean, it makes sense, but its helped at least once so i thought i would ask

the only value I could see in pinning a non-progression item to that location would be straight up a heart container if you're not confident in low health runs

i'm definitely not able to do low health runs yet, so theres a chance i would go back for it

My advice then is to pin the location and just leave it open

cool

@nickography it's marked as a capturable item (yellow), not a sequence break (purple). You can see what it is even if you can't get it.

@Hamsda the third skulltula in spirit temple (hallway to iron knuckle child side) is marked as collectable without boomerang but hookshoot even if silver gauntlets are not available.

Image attachment

Using Super Metroid and ALTTP Randomizer - v10. The package shows that Energy Tank, Brinstar Gate is available with my current items, but I cannot figure out a way to open the gate from the opposite side. I assume there's some trick to open it I'm not aware of.

10:48

Mah items

Image attachment

Game-specific help can be found in the appropriate Discord, also: https://crocomi.re/63

corSee

1

thanks @Mihalo will fix!

@Gilgatex capturable as in you can get it? In that case it should be red, since it's speed locked.

@nickography no. Captureable in you can see what it is without getting it. Just like the lumberjack ledge, which is also yellow at the beginning of the game.

14:09

If it's marked as red, you can't actually set it as being looked at. (edited)

Ah that'd explain the difference - lumberjack ledge is blue:

Image attachment

I think I have different colors set

I'll try updating, but I haven't customized colors

Yeah that was my mistake. You are right, it is marked as sequence break. Should be capturable/peekable

1

It also takes 2 e-tanks where the other 2 items in there take 1.

14:14

not sure if that's logic, or the tracker logic

“Capturable” is an internal term inside the program code that means “can capture the identity of the item but can’t actually collect it yet.”

good to know! what's the term for the yellow spots? (sequence breaks)

Using square brackets in the access codes.

There are some settings that alter the colors that may have a reference.

14:18

Looks like “capturable” are also called “inspect.” The ones you’re inquiring about are called “sequencebreak.” These color alterations can be found in #faq regarding accessibility.

also since we're on the topic, crateria speed item has the same color issue

Etanks required for gravity suit and missile are randomizer logic. 1 for hard and, 2 for normal with varia, and 3 for normal without varia. (Assuming no space or grapple)

14:19

What is the crateria speed item?

Using the location name that’s used in the pack is helpful for identifying what you’re talking about.

Super Missile (Crateria)

Ahh, the pocket room to the right of Climb.

14:22

What inventory do you have and what color is it and what color do you think it should be? Ice is not required in Normal Logic.

It's marked as yellow (sequence break) without speed booster, when it should be inspectable, similar to the issue with Wrecked Ship Reserve

Ahh. I see. You can Space Jump (or walljump if you’re crazy, therefore, no additional equipment required) to see Super Missile (Crateria), yes?

that's right

How is Reserve Tank, Wrecked Ship visible but not obtainable?

Gilga I see it in the SMZ3 logic now re: the e-tank requirement. Probably for the shine spark

14:25

you can see it from above, or below with wall jumps

also injuring yourself across the spike pit

Ahh, moar walljumps, rofl.

All fixed and also pushed a change of an error I noticed myself earlier

Cool, ty!

hey team, in the LTTP standard map tracker, it says the waterfall fairy is sequence breakable with just boots. I know how to do it with the moon pearl with water walking, but how do i do it with the boots?

these sorts of questions are usually much better for the discord of that particular game, as that will give you an answer much faster :) if people there were to tell you that it is not possible, the pack author very likely would appreciate if you tell them though

cool

@Herreteman using the oos map tracker; spoiler log says that my progression is in the chest at dr left's house, but tracker does not account for being able to set season to winter via randomized season in horon village

Image attachment

10:39

though curiously this doesn't occur with the power bracelet to get the southwest chest blocked by mushrooms

Seasons in Horon Village are never accounted for

10:39

The randomizer expects you to exit and reenter for certain seasons

right, but the tracker doesn't say that i can get it

That includes That southwest chest, entering in Autumn

10:40

The reason it doesn't say that is because you're not allowed to get bombs yet

10:41

If you have them already it's technically not in sequence, logic for them is you either find them in a chest or can get rupees to buy them

10:41

It's hard to account for that in the tracker, sorry if it's confusing

ah yeah i found them in a chest

I was pondering adding a bomb icon to the items but it messes up the symmetry

what's the logic for the 150 shop item? it seemed in the first (aborted) run that i did, it wanted me to get flippers there

I am planning to mark bomb checks as accessible sequence breaks in another update

10:43

150 item is technically available from the start but the randomizer logic is supposed to give you access to enough rupees before you need whatever item that is

ah i see. this seems difficult to write the interface for because it does have the weirdness with farming stuff

This can mean a lot of things, but it usually comes down to having ember seeds and visiting the old men that give you money

good to know that's not a bug then

okay i think this next one is a bug

11:02

north horon's season set to summer i have sword, so logic accounts for farming for bombs (?) i have feather so i can jump the hole these items should allow access to the bombable wall in the dry lake but it's not marked as green

11:02

if i set rod of seasons to summer as well then it is marked accessible so it looks like a thing with not reading the default season

also i found summer in that location so clearly it is in logic to access

If you don't have Flippers, you can't access it

11:22

But I'll look into it

i had flippers too

Ok, it was a typo for the jumping check

11:25

Thanks for reporting it

@Hamsda OOT Tracker: How do I uncheck something if done by accident from the map?

#faq You can press F11 to show all locations. Then pin the one you want to undo and right-click the chest icon.

Thanks

Where exactly do you get other trackers?

~~Not really a question for this discord. I'd ask in the discord server of the randomizer you'd like a tracker for. There's a good list in #faq~~ (edited)

15:44

Or are you asking about tracker packs?

Yea

15:44

I got linked to this tracker through the OOTR

Oh. Sorry.

When you open EmoTracker, there's a download button on the title bar that opens the package manager.

Ohh

15:45

Aight

From that window, you'll find all the published packs.

Thanks!

Sorry about my first response. We've had people ask about competing trackers before, which Emo doesn't want linked here. (edited)

No problem :)

how feasible would it currently be to add a "total check counter" to an existing tracker with lua scripting?

Currently not supported. Some things like that are coming in the future. Why?

just asking. there was some discussion amongst ootr people, and the first thing i thought of was the scripting since this is the only tracker i know of that isn't a website, is customizable, and has built in programming elements

It's definitely something that can be allowed in the future. Just needs a priority to determine when it would happen.

yea its something atz and i are working on

in the Alttp+SM crossover pack, when it shows there are 4 chests in a dungeon, does that include the map and compass or is it only progress items?

Dungeon items aren't included.

same pack, what is MM and TR for the madallions?

Misery Mire and Turtle Rock each need a randomized medallion to enter. The MM, TR and BOTH icons let you mark which ones you need when you find out.

ah that makes sense, so try them all at the places, thanks

@Herreteman is this the "Block Rectangle chest" in D2? if it is, then the tracker doesn't mark it as reachable with the following items:

Image attachment

06:17

Image attachment

06:17

(also sorry for pinging you a bunch about this stuff)

Nah, I appreciate it, since I haven't gotten as much feedback as I'd like so far

06:24

I'll look into it

got the power bracelet and it still claims that i cannot get the gift of time, despite the fact that i have definitely just gotten it

Bracelet is not marked in that pic though

06:55

Ok, seems like it was another typo similar to the last one, it wasn't properly checking if you can use seeds

why does it say i can't get feather chest? the only reason i can think of would be burning the key on a different door, but i don't know how that would be possible

Image attachment

Damn you're uncovering a million typos causing those issues

07:32

The D2 essence one is something different but it should be fixed now

07:32

I'll send a hotfix for both this afternoon

also you may want to mark the spring banana as "visible" if you have mt.cucco access + spring + power bracelet as you can see it from below

It is marked as that

iunno

Image attachment

Weird if it isn't working, I made sure that check in particular was right

Ok...found something interesting and very weird

07:44

Bracelet is sometimes making locations disappear, including the banana

07:45

I'll have to investigate that for a while, doesn't really make sense

07:45

Thanks for making me realize that lol

that's really weird yeah

That specific case should now be fixed, but it may resurface in some other form so I'm looking into the causes

08:41

If anything weird happens in the next update let me know

this room in D7: can you do it without pegasus seeds? because either it is very tight or not possible

Image attachment

08:57

okay i just did it nvm ignore that

What's 2(+2) Items supposed to mean in Ice Cavern on Hamsda's tracker?

2 items baseline and 2 more if you took off maps and compasses

23:57

likely going to change

Seems like an odd way of doing things since there's nothing like that in other dungeons and unless I'm mistaken it's not like removing map/compass makes extra treasure chests appear.

it

00:09

kind of

00:09

does

00:10

because without maps and compasses in the item pool

00:10

there are instead blue rupees in their place

00:10

and the chests which contained those maps and compasses can now contain any item pool item

00:10

this is the case for all dungeons with maps and compasses

00:10

...except that feature was removed in a recent-ish dev build of OoTR

Yeah, I've noticed on the latest update to Hamsda's tracker has that treasure count in only a handful of the dungeons anymore. (edited)

and I don't know whether it's come back

00:11

or if it's ever GOING to come back

yeah I was kinda mid transition for them

And Remove Maps+Compasses has been added back in on TR's Dev build for a week or two now.

with maps/compasses not shuffled keysanity-style or removed, there are e.g. two unique items to pick up in Ice Cavern

00:16

shuffling them keysanity style or removing them entirely adds potentially two more unique items to Ice Cavern

But if there's no extra chests then there's not much of a need to add that in.

so yes, shuffling/removing them does effectively add useful item checks to the dungeons instead of "yup, that's a compass, that can fuck right off"

@Hamsda on the tracker, with just the boomerang and open forest, it puts the graveyard crate HP as a green check. that would be out of logic according to the code

set_rule(world.get_location('Graveyard Freestanding PoH'), lambda state: state.is_adult() and (state.has('Magic Bean') or state.has('Progressive Hookshot', 2)))

so maybe it should be changed to a yellow check instead?

oh yeah, I keep forgetting that one

03:30

I think it was suggested to be put in logic with rang but isn't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

03:30

thanks for the reminder

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/482391756269420544/492092787345326080/unknown.png

Embedded image

15:02

any idea why it's not picking up the christos_tracker pack?

Might have to do with the folder structure in the zip. Was it working before?

it's essentially the same as what's in atz_compact with a few custom changes

15:05

I'll show you the contents of each, one sec

are the changes moving things around or did you add things?

Image attachment

15:06

I added a new image and some chat hud commands

contents of manifest pls

{ "name": "OoT Randomizer - atz_compact", "game_name": "Ocarina of Time Randomizer", "game_variant": "Open Mode", "package_version": "1.1.5", "package_uid": "ootrando_atz_compact", "author": "atz" }

15:07

that's in the christos_tracker one

15:07

is that the problem?

yup

just update the package uid to match?

{ "name": "OoT Randomizer - ChristosOwen", "game_name": "Ocarina of Time Randomizer", "game_variant": "Open Mode", "package_version": "1.1.5", "package_uid": "christos_tracker", "author": "ChristosOwen" }

15:08

should do you

thank you, I'll try now

15:09

that did it

15:09

thanks a lot guys

raysP

I probably should have looked through all the files huh

15:10

its all good lol

15:10

i'm curious what you've added actually. is it what we talked about earlier?

(On an unrelated note, why does the atz pack have my txt files still in it?)

just a quick and dirty lol

15:12

also saw no real need to remove it, since it technically still applies. if its a problem it can be :P

Up to you.

it'll probably be redone once i clean everything up or replaced with something else entirely

Honestly, it's probably more applicable to your pack at this point since I redid my layout to add several items.

@Espeon Continuing here

17:13

Did you update the pack to the latest version?

unless the latest version was released in the last 2 hours

17:13

okay apparently i didn't because it broke or something

17:13

???

17:13

okay i'll try it after the update

It may be that 1.2 did not upload correctly?

17:14

Idk, in my local version that specific issue was solved

mk i'm just a silly derp

17:16

sorry for bothering you

dw

I has a question, on the Alttp+SM tracker what is the green go for?

Go Mode, to indicate to a viewing audience you have everything you need to beat the game.

Hey, what does it mean if a chest is grayed out? I thought it meant inaccessible but anju as adult is like this even though I have open door of time, kakariko shooting gallery too even though I have the bow

You need to check off the Master Sword first

15:54

All Adult locations require you to own the Master Sword before being shown as accessible.

wow ok im stupid lemme just slide on outtakes here

Okay so I played an OoS rando last night, which was friggin awesome, but there was something going on with the tracker. It said the Maku Tree gift was attainable very, very early except I couldn't actually get it. Is this a logic thing or do I actually need all eight essences to get it?

@Herreteman pingaling ^

Thanks for the ping

18:06

@Sal the Dragon That item is the thing you get for waking up the tree, not the Maku seed

18:06

It's normally the key to D1

18:06

Maku seed is not in the tracker actually

Ah. Well I got a sword and spent half an hour swiping at the bubble to wake it, but I got nothing. Are there any other requirements?

Weird

18:10

You wake him up and go through a kind of long dialogue and then it should drop

18:11

If that doesn't happen you may have already gotten it, if not it may be an unknown bug

i am kind of annoyed at this metroid and ALTTP Rando i am doing atm

Send me your ROM or the seed it was if you're confident nothing dropped, I can check it and/or report it as a bug

@Exturn527 Support for SMxALttP happens in the appropriate Discord; if you're certain it's a tracker bug you've encountered (which they will be able to help you determine) then bring it back here and ping the pack creator with the details.

18:14

Yes, we (the SMxALttP community) have a Discord for that project. Yes, it's linked in #faq.

I'm 100% sure nothing dropped. I'll send you the ROM and the seed after dinner

@Fouton (PugHUD) minor thing I noticed in the ALttSM tracker, access to the GT super missile from the back should also give visibility to the missile tank

This is for the map tracker?

I dont run any map trackers

You do now

alttsm map tracker is gilgatex iirc

Why should we ever ping the guy actually responsible for the package in question?

21:22

That sounds productive, so let's not do that ever.

Good idea. @Gilgatex

sorry @Fouton (PugHUD) I just went with the first name listed in the pack updater under ALttSM Rando

No worries

@qwertymodo I don't follow. Ganon's Tower isn't a location on the map

Gold Torizo Missile should be visible from Gold Torizo Super Missile.

02:15

@Gilgatex https://wiki.supermetroid.run/images/c/cb/GoldenTorizosRoomSmile.png If you can access the Super Missile position on the right, you should be able to view the item in the Missile position on the left.

02:15

"GT" in this instance referring to the miniboss, Gold(en) Torizo and not "Ganon's Tower."

There aren't naturally missile packs in LttP anyway, so referring to a missile location in Ganon's Tower makes zero sense.

if you can get into GT room you should be able to see the missile by wall jumping up the left wall

05:06

no super needed

05:06

though you cannot be in GT room and not be able to get them

Yeah, what they said ^^^ sorry for the ambiguity.

07:51

And Espeon is right, if you can get into the room at all, you are guaranteed to be able to collect the super (but that seemed to already be correct in the tracker logic). It was just missing the logic for visibility check on the missile.

@Natalie yeah that is why I was confused. I am a Zelda guy not a Metroid guy.

07:59

I understand the issue now, thanks for reporting :)

08:00

Plus it was 4am here when I read it...

@EmoSaru a little question about LTTP pack, can you details Escape items in standard mode as they are in keysanity ? (Escaqe/back/Sanct ?) thanks

11:09

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11:09

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11:09

or it s not possible ?

It’s possible, it’s just not worth it.

11:22

And it’s makes required clicks more precise.

11:23

Which is a slowdown when tracking during racing

11:23

The only reason they’re separate during keysanity is because of the key requirement that may not be naturally satisfiable in the dungeon itself

11:24

So it’s far more likely to not be able to complete all sections at once

in the open mode, its the same, you dont root zll the escape in the same time, and you may be blocked if you dont have the little key to finish at once

11:30

but in race, yes, it's more clicks

I’m well aware of the logic, it’s a question of actual value add. As a general statement, anything that increases the tracking workload for competitive runners without adding substantial informational value is something I strongly consider not doing.

for alttp+sm the tracker shows there are two chests in the chest minigame, is this a typo or am not seeing something cause i was sure there was only one prize for the minigame

18:53

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@Gilgatex The above is definitely an issue: the Chest Minigame in Dark Kakariko has exactly one prize no matter whether you find it in the first or the second chest

Can confirm.

@Hamsda re: discussion that just occurred in #general tl;dr: Regular Map variant Why does Ice Cavern have a chest counter in addition to the separate locations?

19:58

https://puu.sh/BA01h.png because pictures are worth words

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It's to count items you get (ie not compass and map)

I think this is leftover from an old pack. He used to have all dungeons this way. One icon was for dungeon treasures. The rest were to mark off specific locations.

20:03

Yeah, it's redundant.

I believe it's a holdover from an earlier version of the package - the treasure counters have been removed from most of the dungeons.

oh and for some reason i couldnt get Ganon's Tower to show how many chest/progression items were in it on Alttp+SM (edited)

@Espy the Espeon It's been updated and pushed to the server with that fix

22:52

@qwertymodo Also pushed your peek suggestion

1

yeah was a leftover for like 3 locations

02:29

https://github.com/Hamsda/OoTRMapTracker/commit/06fbafb974cefa53a99dfafbe3b2cbc475208f5f

removed tresure counts I missed · Hamsda/OoTRMapTracker@06fbafb

02:29

currently working on a first version of the MQ dungeons which is quite complicated with all the logic

02:30

shouldve probably pushed these other changes beforehand

@Hamsda is there a reason why the GC boss key chest thinks it requires GC boss key to access? (edited)

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@Herreteman 2 things that i noticed: - having any of the flutes puts the 2nd chest in hero's cave into logic, since all 3 animals can break the bush in some way - having ricky, bombs, and north horon's season as summer / summer rod makes the "Dry the lake" chest accessible (that's wrong because it needs flippers oops) (edited)

Yes

05:42

That's all supposedly in

05:43

I may have forgotten about flippers there though, let me check

no the 2nd one is right

05:43

i just didn't realize it needed flippers

05:43

the 1st part though is not in the tracker

Hmmm

05:44

Breaking bushes is universally tied to having a flute, so idk why it's not picking it up

05:45

Found it

05:45

I'll send a fix to be uploaded

also you can apparently use bombs to wake the maku tree

05:46

i recognize that's hard to implement though

AFAIK using bombs there is not part of the logic

05:56

I'll probably add it at another point with the rest of the possible sequence breaks

it is now part of the logic, at least of v2.1 of the randomizer

@Lucibear because i'm a dummy

good

never put much thought into GC

fixed it with an override for now

once you are in there you are good to go with most peoples settings anyways

for sm+alttp, the ridley e-tank room should show up as yellow if lower norfair is accessible and/or you tick off that ridley is defeated imo; it's not in logic without charge but if you beat ridley without charge beam then you can't tick off that you got it

Perhaps you should ping the person responsible for the upkeep of that particular tracker package.

That would be @Gilgatex

ok will keep in mind in the future

@SauceRelic so I'm in the Ruined Fountain in Metroid Prime, and the tracker says the missile expansion (gravity suit in my seed) is attainable when I haven't beaten the boss of Chozo Ruins yet

Everything right now was ripped straight from the logic. Looking at it, Flahgraa only needs missiles and bombs, so since bosses are static it just assumes that you would path to Flahgraa in order to get it.

04:40

So you can get that item after you beat the boss, which you can also go to right now. In future versions I might add a boss tracker for edge cases like that, because chozo ruins is one of the few places where beating a boss is required to get to more than just a single item. (edited)

04:43

Also a heads up: there's a few locations that will show up blue even if you can get to it. That means you can't escape the room unless it's a certain item. Often you can see the item from outside, but if you can't you can get locked in and need to reset

04:44

So be sure to save often

@64bit_link If you're talking about a sequence break, don't you mean pink? Yellow is a "see but can't get"

Ah, so it assumes I've beaten the boss if I have the necessary weapons to do so. Thanks!

Hmm @Gilgatex have you customized the colors? Yellow is the default for sequence break. Pink is not the default for anything. Blue is the defAult for “inspectable”

gah, yeah I need to change that back. It's not even consistent between computers

@jaysee in the alttp overworld glitches packs, the 4 chests in blind's house are not present

12:31

minor thing since most people will just rightclick them all off at once, but worth fixing

Oh. Whoops. Will fix tonight

i dont know if anyone is aware but AM2R has a randomizer option now and i was wondering if we could get some packs for it

An AM2R pack might be pushing it. Doesn’t it still have a C&D notice?

for him developing it yes lol. its constantly updated by the fans

13:33

and has a thriving community

Given that there are legal issues with that game, while I have no issues with somebody building/publishing a pack for it, I have to request that no artwork from the game is used in the pack. Only original artwork. (edited)

Thanks for the clarification, Emo!

@Gilgatex @EmoSaru yeah on my tracker the sequence break items show up yellow. At any rate thinking about it more I think just defeating ridley alone should make the ridley e-tank accessible on the tracker; that would make it consistent with draygon/space jump and kraid/varia

Ridley’s tank, in logic for the actual Randomizer, requires Charge.

@EmoSaru all the items that u can obtain in am2r are also in other games. would it be ok to use the icons from the other games they are in?

I believe the thing was regarding AM2R’s logo. A logo would need to be made that isn’t from the current artwork, or something.

19:13

The banner logo thingy.

i already got one

19:13

of those

But is it derivative or did you draw it by hand?

got 2 fan made logos

“You” being hypothetical.

http://puu.sh/BCGH0/4cb7acf91f.png http://puu.sh/BCGHd/76b8b1bb11.png

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Probably more at the second since it’s mostly letters. Dunno about the S symbol.

u think u might make a am2r pack?

I’d have to theoretically locate an installation and gain access to the Randomizer.

its on the am2r reddit

19:18

a randomizer has been built into a game

19:18

as an option

19:18

when u create a file

It’s gated, is it not?

yea its real easy to ungate it. i can get u a save file

Neat.

@64bit_link I'm still going to make it a sequence break so that you know it's not in logic

21:08

But it would still be red until you beat Ridley

maybe i could make an am2r pack

22:46

i kind of know about that game

I'm actually concerned about all the art

23:06

Not just the banner

23:06

My recommendation though, is to get the pack working, and then we can talk about it.

Since it's a fan remake of Metroid 2, couldn't they use the sprites from Metroid 2 or Metroid: Samus Returns? (I'm guessing. I don't know what they use for sprites in the game)

That would be fine

23:12

I just don't want to do anything that would invite a C&D and/or deeper review of any/all of the packs we have here.

lightly messing around with the inverted tracker(ie just turning things on and seeing what lights up)- flute is counted as functional without lw access to get to the statue/activate it

good catch, I will address that...

Flute's progressive in the default pack, right? Might be easiest to move all flute requirements to the bird stage.

23:39

Oh, I forgot the second stage doesn't have a separate code.

That's one option

23:44

But, inverted requires the flute VERY seldomly

23:44

So it's not too bad to add the lightworld access check

23:44

Does anybody know offhand if the flute can be activated as a bunny? I assume not

23:44

the logically permissable bunny shit is honestly almost all of the complexity in inverted

I wouldn't think so since you can't use items.

im not 100% on bunny flute activation, but pretty certain no

23:46

if i recall its just NPCs, tablets, and freestanding items that can be gotten as bunny

yeah

although once you get into bunny sequence breaks things just get stupid

actually, I just noticed another bug, which is that bombos tablet requires a pearl

I'm surprised you can get tablets since that requires book.

23:48

I would not have realised that.

the bunny can use the book

yep, and briefly transform into link to do a spin with his sword

Yeah and that's a bit odd to me because in vanilla you can't use book in bunny form

23:48

(as in, no buzzer saying "this isn't a book thing") (edited)

I mean, there are no useless hints added for no reason in vanilla either, but here we are

<nathan fylion being perplexed gif> But yeah I don't think bunny can activate flute

k, and yeah, I think bombos is the only tablet you can get without pearl

23:51

because ether requires hammer, AFAICT

Yes.

23:52

When v30 comes out the source can be checked to see the true requirement for flute activation without trying to hunt for a seed that lets you check.

yeah, I'm not too fussed about it right now

23:52

and I'd rather err on the side of "it shows what people are actually doing"

23:53

I particularly enjoyed realizing tonight that the smith is totally retrievable with the mirror and no mitts

23:54

I'm not actually sure if that one's in the logic

23:54

but it's 100% possible, so it's green right now

It is in logic, yeah

Is there a logical way to get pyramid item in Inverted with only Mitts and Mirror or is that a mistake in the tracker?

That's an error. The pearl should also be required in that case, I believe, as it's required to exit the village of outcasts warp area

That's what I was thinking. There's no way down the mountain in light world (I think) so that portal can't be used and all others are blocked by pearl. As a note, Catfish and PoD are also affected by this but I guess fixing this will fix those too

It’s the access rules for all of east side dark world, so yeah. I pushed an update that should resolve it. (edited)

Hmm. Now Mitts + Mirror + Pearl does not open East Dark World

03:11

oops

03:11

tracker defaulted to another pack.

Aga1 is only showing up with Cape collected. I'm fairly certain Mushroom and Forest Hideout cannot be collected without the Pearl.

05:30

Purple Chest is no longer Mitt locked, too. Thanks to Mirror.

05:31

(^ Best Pearl location ever.)

Aga1 puts East DW in logic with Mirror. (i.e.: Pyramid Fairy)

All Fixed: Aga1 was still the old light world aga barrier logic, lost woods chests have been moved to require pearl, purple chest allows bunny + mirror. Aga1 + mirror already granted east dark world, but the pyramid fairy logic had lingering requirements from non-invertedl fixed to be mirror

inverted doesnt show pegcave with mirror & hammer (edited)

good catch, will be fixed in the next update

are we putting minor glitch checks in at all yet? Because Paradox Cave can be superbunnied with mitts

only the bottom floor though, right?

you go in, fall in the hole, go up the stairs, kill moldorms and beam the switch

The stairs don't reset superbunny state? (edited)

superbunny cant bomb so the two on the bottom are still inaccessible

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